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[The Mysterious Q!]

Well well we have a little debate here. i am a baseball fan and still play softball at a high level and know what it takes to stay competitive. Last I checked steroids don't enhance hand eye coordination or the ability to hit a 98 mile an hour fastball. Also read up a little about the ball players of the golden age of baseball in the 50's, even the beloved Mantle after a long night of boozing and getting to the stadium at game time drinking that little cup of red liquid. What do you think that was? Kool Aid I think not,it was speed. Yes as Don has said McGuire didn't break any rules by which the game he played is governed and therefore should not be scorned by the press. I think the whole Sosa,McGuire battle breathed new life into a game where it was going to the wayside. People and in big part the next generation of baseball fanatics don't want to see a pitchers duel they want the long ball. Homeruns are exciting as a kid you wanted to be the homerun hitter on the squad. Baseball has its problems but like anything else the media and PC sportscasters cast a bad light on the game we all love and now we want asterisks in record books so we can look back at a forgotten age when supposedly the game was pure. Lets look take a little peek back shall we. We had the Blacksox scandal,the "Georgia Peach" loaded baseballs,drunks,speed,gamblers the game is evolving and always will. We don't know what athletes juiced in the record book now, all we have is the ones who definatively got caught and then they rat on their teamates. Steroids are a part of alot of activities and sports and if thats what you think you need to help your game ,its your own body you are ruining.  It's illegal so if you have the proof then prosecute the people if not lets remember its only a game.   Later,Q

[SPIDERMAN]

OK,
       So now let's seague into a discussion on Michael Vick 

[Midnight Rider]

OK,
       So now let's seague into a discussion on Michael Vick 

If I was Emperor, he'd go to jail, and pay a fine proportional to his income...something that would actually hurt the man's pocketbook.  And once a month, I'd run a piece of copper pipe up his ass and clamp battery cables to his 'nads, then apply 220 volt of AC just long enough, but just short of killing the no good piece of chit...

People who harm innocent animals and children intentionally don't need to be on the planet...


What he did/was responsible for goes beyond being inhumane...there is absolutely NO excuse for it, and it is an indicator of a sick SOB in other ways as well.

[Ghost Rider]

If I was Emperor, he'd go to jail, and pay a fine proportional to his income...something that would actually hurt the man's pocketbook.  And once a month, I'd run a piece of copper pipe up his ass and clamp battery cable to his 'nads, then apply 220 volt of AC just long enough, but just short of killing the no good piece of chit...

People who harm innocent animals and children intentionally don't need to be on the planet...

How about covering him in raw hamburger and turning those pit bulls he's starved for weeks lose on him.  That should improve his 40 time.

[Midnight Rider]

How about covering him in raw hamburger and turning those pit bulls he's starved for weeks lose on him.  That should improve his 40 time.

Another excellent idea...

[grc]

I see several responses that basically state either that since the "enhancements" weren't specifically spelled out as illegal then it's OK, or that since everyone could use them if so desired the playing field was level.  Sorry, but I consider both arguments to be total BS.  That logic puts a player who doesn't want to destroy his body, and perhaps his life as in the recent case from the wrestling fraternity, at a sizeable disadvantage.  By playing dumb, major sports sanctioning bodies are putting more and more young people at risk, and for what?  IT'S A FRIGGIN' GAME, FOLKS!  If you want to throw your money at someone, or live vicariously through them, throw it at folks who make a real difference in the world, like school teachers, scientists, police and fire personnel, etc., not some pumped up jerk whose only claim to fame is good eye-hand coordination combined with enough strength to knock a baseball over a fence.  And if you want to see some real baseball, turn off the TV and visit one of the many ball fields scattered all over this country where kids play just for the love of the game.

Jerry

[flyingwillie]

Barry Bonds is a jerk.  Vick is, and always has been a THUG....just like his brother.  Arthur Blank will not be able to cover this one up like he did the water bottle incident in Miami.  Vick is going to be a "cutie pie" in Fed. prison and give a lot of mean, big dog lovers lots of pleasure.
Here's to you Mikey 

[Twolanerider]

I see several responses that basically state either that since the "enhancements" weren't specifically spelled out as illegal then it's OK, or that since everyone could use them if so desired the playing field was level.  Sorry, but I consider both arguments to be total BS.  That logic puts a player who doesn't want to destroy his body, and perhaps his life as in the recent case from the wrestling fraternity, at a sizeable disadvantage.  By playing dumb, major sports sanctioning bodies are putting more and more young people at risk, and for what?  IT'S A FRIGGIN' GAME, FOLKS!  If you want to throw your money at someone, or live vicariously through them, throw it at folks who make a real difference in the world, like school teachers, scientists, police and fire personnel, etc., not some pumped up jerk whose only claim to fame is good eye-hand coordination combined with enough strength to knock a baseball over a fence.  And if you want to see some real baseball, turn off the TV and visit one of the many ball fields scattered all over this country where kids play just for the love of the game.

Jerry

Not saying they are smart Jerry.  Not even saying their actions should be respected within the confines of the game.  Only that, if they aren't illegal within the rules of the game that same game shouldn't punish them for it.

If a guy is a jerk, cretin, thug, hypocrite or generally an asshole (Bonds, Palmiero, Vick, et.al) they'll most all be "punished" in some fashion or another for those facets of their character.  That's a lot different, however, than hauling a guy that played his way through University of Arizona on a baseball scholarship up before the US Congress for not ever doing anything, while he was doing it, violated the rules of the game he was being interrogated about.  I'm just never comfortable with individuals becoming political footballs for the benefit of seated congresscritters.


And as for Mike Vick?  Cover him with bacon grease and line him up against a D-Line made up of the hungry ghosts of the dogs that have gone away for his amusement.

[SPIDERMAN]

The last professional sporting event I paid to attend was an NHRA meet. Last time I looked, those guys didn't have issues with the kind of crap we're talking about here. The rules are simple too - - go from point A to point B faster than the guy in the vehicle beside you and you win. Gotta love that

B B

[Ghost Rider]

The last professional sporting event I paid to attend was an NHRA meet. Last time I looked, those guys didn't have issues with the kind of crap we're talking about here. The rules are simple too - - go from point A to point B faster than the guy in the vehicle beside you and you win. Gotta love that

B B

Plus your earnings are based on how you perform.  If you want to make more money, figure out how to go faster.   

[Smiler]

Well Barry Bonds hit his 752nd home run today and Hank Aaron's record is only three away. I am no San Fran fan (go BOSOX) but I am a fan of Barry. I'm sure there will be some debate here.

LOL Not from this side of the pond, does he have a brother called James 

[bigdog257]

Spiderman, not only did Bonds gain all that muscle, his shoe size went up 2 sizes and his head became a small planet.


Bigdog

[Midnight Rider]

Spiderman, not only did Bonds gain all that muscle, his shoe size went up 2 sizes and his head became a small planet.


Bigdog

And his nads became tiny, tiny satellites...

[grc]

Not saying they are smart Jerry.  Not even saying their actions should be respected within the confines of the game.  Only that, if they aren't illegal within the rules of the game that same game shouldn't punish them for it.

If a guy is a jerk, cretin, thug, hypocrite or generally an asshole (Bonds, Palmiero, Vick, et.al) they'll most all be "punished" in some fashion or another for those facets of their character.  That's a lot different, however, than hauling a guy that played his way through University of Arizona on a baseball scholarship up before the US Congress for not ever doing anything, while he was doing it, violated the rules of the game he was being interrogated about.  I'm just never comfortable with individuals becoming political footballs for the benefit of seated congresscritters.


And as for Mike Vick?  Cover him with bacon grease and line him up against a D-Line made up of the hungry ghosts of the dogs that have gone away for his amusement.

Don,

Don't get me wrong, I don't think MLB should punish McGwire either, since they were fully complicit in the whole thing.  But I do think that the general public needs to stop idolizing and supporting cheats, thieves, and jerks.  I was a jock in junior and senior high school, so it's not that I'm anti jock.  I've just finally gotten fed up with the increasing number of total assholes involved in professional sports.  And it's funny how the same people who give these clowns a free pass, starting in grade school if they show any athletic talent, can't figure out what went wrong when the jerks wind up in jail or dead.  Amazing.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

Don,

Don't get me wrong, I don't think MLB should punish McGwire either, since they were fully complicit in the whole thing.  But I do think that the general public needs to stop idolizing and supporting cheats, thieves, and jerks.  I was a jock in junior and senior high school, so it's not that I'm anti jock.  I've just finally gotten fed up with the increasing number of total assholes involved in professional sports.  And it's funny how the same people who give these clowns a free pass, starting in grade school if they show any athletic talent, can't figure out what went wrong when the jerks wind up in jail or dead.  Amazing.

Jerry

Completely agree Jerry.  I never came down on the popular side of the whole extra-curricular versus co-curricular debate about school athletics.  And I got fed up a long time ago with the coddling and royalty treatments given to so many.  Just short of pagan idolotry.

It's not just pro sports either.  Granted, the NBA seems to be the pinnacle of bad boys right now followed closely by the NFL.  But they've all got their jerks.  It's sad that the press given them so thoroughly smothers anything you might otherwise hear about the Ripkens of the world or the small market team of just-off-the-farm youngsters that actually makes a run at the playoffs.  But it is what it is.

That whole scene with McGwire though just always left a bad taste in my mouth.  A guy who probably didn't have much in the way bad intention at the time.  Who just thought he was doing something to play better.  Likely didn't yet question his own mortality so didn't really believe the stuff could actually hurt him.  And yet he's stuck sitting there before a Congressional dock with guys that really are assholes before guys who are assholes for a living and whose intent is to embarass him so they can look good and feel proud.

McGwire is the guy who intentionally missed a shot at hitting 50 dingers as a rookie so he could be there when his baby was born.  He's never been the "jerk" or prima donna too prevalent elsewhere.  Just never liked it that he's cast with the rest of the lot.