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[Unbalanced]

skreminegul07,

Actually I brought it in for the tranny leak and they found the HG leak and said it caused both!

If you can get them to explain to you how a head gasket leak caused a Tranny Leak I would be quite interested in hearing this wonderful tale. 

[Deuces_Wild]

I really feel bad for all you guys.  I personally know of 3, 07 SE Ultra's that have had complete motor changes, one of them is on his third motor and secound bike, since the first motor, locked up, causing him to crash.  Harley replace the bike and now it's on the secound motor.  I personally think Harley should be sued for expecting the customer to pay 30 + grand for a Beta engine and components. In the last few years we have seen many problems due to Harley trying to keep pace with the EPA, some of which have been completely and unmistakably "DANGEROUS" and possibly life threatening. I understand as I know all of you do, the love for your ride, "BUT" continueing to take this kind of disrespect and abuse from Harley only justifies there BS.

[Unbalanced]

Hoping tomorrow solves the issue, if not this was the 3rd time and i have a little over a year left on the bike to possible cry lemon lemon lemon law.

[Unbalanced]

ok so here is the update the bike is still at the dealer.   They replaced all the parts, got it running sorta.   With the factory download in my ECM the compression releases now work.   We went ahead and loaded my race tuner map that we created on the dealers dyno.   Boom no compression releases.   We go back in load map 84 for giggles, still no compression releases.

I note this only because it dawned on me after leaving the dealership tonight.   on their desktop they have version 4.50 and version 4.62 icons.   Version 4.50 the compression releases didnt work so that is why they released version 4.62.   I am wondering if the problem is because they did not uninstall 4.50 and installed 4.62 over the top that is causing the issue.   Any time I have ever installed the Race Tuner software it has asked me to uninstall the previous version.  If you were to uninstall and do a clean install you would not have both icons on the desktop, because the uninstall would remove them.  /hrmph  frustrating

Tomorrow I am bringing my laptop down there that only has 4.62 on it and I am going to try it.

I am also going to create a new map with the base from 4.62 incase it is a legacy issue with the map and try that one as well if those dont work I guess I will give up and figure out what harley says about it and go from there.

[Unbalanced]

new compression release

[MJZ]

I really feel bad for all you guys.  I personally know of 3, 07 SE Ultra's that have had complete motor changes, one of them is on his third motor and secound bike, since the first motor, locked up, causing him to crash.  Harley replace the bike and now it's on the secound motor.  I personally think Harley should be sued for expecting the customer to pay 30 + grand for a Beta engine and components. In the last few years we have seen many problems due to Harley trying to keep pace with the EPA, some of which have been completely and unmistakably "DANGEROUS" and possibly life threatening. I understand as I know all of you do, the love for your ride, "BUT" continueing to take this kind of disrespect and abuse from Harley only justifies there BS.

I have three friends that have had their rear jugs replaced on their 07 110's and everyone else I know is expecting to have the same problem. The sadest part is the ones that have had theirs replaced don't have any confidence the replacement will be any better than the original. I am seriously considering taking my deposit back and waiting for MoCo to get their chit together. Without this site and others similar on the web, nobody would know anything about these problems with the 110's. You're sure not going to hear it from the stealerships.

[Unbalanced]

MJZ,

I do not believe that this is going to be resolved by a new rear jugg.  Let me try to explain my thinking on this.

I believe that were not seeing this in the front due to it gets more air there and keeps the engine within tolerances.   I believe that the motor is expanding to the point that things end up moving a tiny bit and harley hopes that the new Thicker gasket will make up for the differences in tolerances.   So far in 2 tries it hasn't, but they say replace the jugg, they didnt say exactly why this is their course of action.   Wondering if replacing the studs with race studs would stop some of the expansion and help 

Again this is my thinking, that the cylinder studs are expanding and contracting too and with that the movement comes.  I believe these juggs are thinner do to the larger bore than the 103" and they are not handling the heat and over X period of time for me about 5000 miles the jugg / gasket finally have enough wiggle room that the oil under pressure is being forced byt he gasket into the bolt holes and then out the bottom of the jugg.   

I think harley is counting on the people that dont ride a lot to only see this one time maybe a 2nd time over their 2 year warranty and then its off to extended and harley is safe.   The people that get out and ride a lot more like myself are seeing this over and over and well this hopefully fixes it, but I don't think it will. 

With the on going issues I am forced to start considering going to the 113" motor upgrade as they are not seeing this problem, the juggs are bigger, the heads are different and well all I have to do is bore the cases and pay some money.   The other consideration is to just use the millenium / axtel juggs and new pistons and go to the 124 and get some head work done and not have this problem.   

Thinking out loud to hire an attorney is about 2500 dollars to start then whatever else from there.   A forensic mechanic another 2500 - 5000.   that is 5000-7500 and no guaranteed outcome.   Might have to consider paying 6k and just get it done right.  /shrug frustrating to say the least.

Back of my mind I keep saying to myself I should have just replaced my 05 that i totaled with another 05 / 06.   

[Midnight Rider]

I have three friends that have had their rear jugs replaced on their 07 110's and everyone else I know is expecting to have the same problem. The sadest part is the ones that have had theirs replaced don't have any confidence the replacement will be any better than the original. I am seriously considering taking my deposit back and waiting for MoCo to get their chit together. Without this site and others similar on the web, nobody would know anything about these problems with the 110's. You're sure not going to hear it from the stealerships.

Mark...same thing in talking to the SM here the other day.  One bike in with rocker box clearance issues so bad that it destroyed the valve spring keeper (if that's the correct term) and caused big problems with that head/cylinder.  Motor had been so hot that BOTH badges (old style badges) had turned completely yellow/gold.  On the positive side of the new management philosophy here at this dealer, they tore the whole top end down and checked/replaced all parts that were not in spec, got it back together for the guy by staying 'till 9PM the night before he headed out to Canada on vacation.  I'd be really nervous if I had a 110 and was about to embark on a lengthy trip.  And to top it off, we don't even know yet what, if any, options are going to be available to get the bike tuned properly and cooled down because of the changes to the ECM in 08. The MOCO has really screwed up on this whole deal.  I don't envy your position of having to make a decision on the purchase of the new scoot at this point in time.  They've had a friggin' year to get these motor issues diagnosed and find a PERMANENT solution to the problem.  It makes you wonder if there IS a permanent solution, or if they are buying time on the 07's till they run out of warranty...  If I had one, I'd damn sure have the extended warranty to go with it.

If they would just step up to the plate and admit the motors have problems and offer at least some consoling words letting people know they are working feverishly on a fix, it would at least make people feel better.  Of course, the average Joe out there, who's not a member of some kind of forum where these issues are being brought to the surface, will be none the wiser about getting one stuck in him/her.  Damn shame...

[skreminegul07]

MJZ,

I do not believe that this is going to be resolved by a new rear jugg.  Let me try to explain my thinking on this.

I believe that were not seeing this in the front due to it gets more air there and keeps the engine within tolerances.   I believe that the motor is expanding to the point that things end up moving a tiny bit and harley hopes that the new Thicker gasket will make up for the differences in tolerances.   So far in 2 tries it hasn't, but they say replace the jugg, they didn't say exactly why this is their course of action.   Wondering if replacing the studs with race studs would stop some of the expansion and help 

Again this is my thinking, that the cylinder studs are expanding and contracting too and with that the movement comes.  I believe these juggs are thinner do to the larger bore than the 103" and they are not handling the heat and over X period of time for me about 5000 miles the jugg / gasket finally have enough wiggle room that the oil under pressure is being forced byt he gasket into the bolt holes and then out the bottom of the jugg.   

I think harley is counting on the people that dont ride a lot to only see this one time maybe a 2nd time over their 2 year warranty and then its off to extended and harley is safe.   The people that get out and ride a lot more like myself are seeing this over and over and well this hopefully fixes it, but I don't think it will. 

With the on going issues I am forced to start considering going to the 113" motor upgrade as they are not seeing this problem, the juggs are bigger, the heads are different and well all I have to do is bore the cases and pay some money.   The other consideration is to just use the millenium / axtel juggs and new pistons and go to the 124 and get some head work done and not have this problem.   

Thinking out loud to hire an attorney is about 2500 dollars to start then whatever else from there.   A forensic mechanic another 2500 - 5000.   that is 5000-7500 and no guaranteed outcome.    Might have to consider paying 6k and just get it done right.  /shrug frustrating to say the least.

Back of my mind I keep saying to myself I should have just replaced my 05 that i totaled with another 05 / 06.   

This is what I have been saying all along.  They assume that this issue will not be seen while under warranty.

As far as legal fees, the cost could be lessened by joining forces in a class action suit.  Have you discussed this with an attorney willing to take on the MOCO?

I'm game at this point.

[Unbalanced]

Class Action while a good idea really only makes the lawyers money and really doesnt necessarily do much for us as the victims.

I would be inclined to join up for the sake of making them do right, but doubt it will be in a time fashion worth while to the problems we have today.

[MJZ]

Your theory sadly is exactly the same as a friend told me this afternoon. He has a 07 SERK w/ 4k miles which is now having the rear jugg replaced. He is the one I was speaking of above that had absolutely no faith that the fix was permanent at all. Today the dealer said he had no idea when I could expect to see my new bike and I'm kidding myself into thinking good, they should have the problem fixed by the time mine is assembled. My excitement over the new bike is clouding my judgement toward the wrong direction. Big mistake, especially since I have no intention of parting with my 05 SEEG and was going to use it to replace my SED for local riding, while using the new bike for longer trips. I need to rethink this situation with a more informed and less emotional view. Caveat Emptor keeps rolling through my mind.

[Twolanerider]

Your theory sadly is exactly the same as a friend told me this afternoon. He has a 07 SERK w/ 4k miles which is now having the rear jugg replaced. He is the one I was speaking of above that had absolutely no faith that the fix was permanent at all. Today the dealer said he had no idea when I could expect to see my new bike and I'm kidding myself into thinking good, they should have the problem fixed by the time mine is assembled. My excitement over the new bike is clouding my judgement toward the wrong direction. Big mistake, especially since I have no intention of parting with my 05 SEEG and was going to use it to replace my SED for local riding, while using the new bike for longer trips. I need to rethink this situation with a more informed and less emotional view. Caveat Emptor keeps rolling through my mind.

Mark, strictly in the FWIW department I saw a red one in Springfield, MO this afternoon.  The paint was terrible.  Orange peel on every surface except for the tank and saddlebag lids.  It was incredibly bad on the tour pak, most of the tank and outer fairing.  Paint also had some dull spots beneath the clear.  Looked like it was dirty when it got clear coated or something.  Just a strikingly poor paint job.

Almost fortunately I never saw the owner to the bike.  So didn't have to face pointing it all out to him.  Never know how those conversations might be taken.

[miker]

MJZ,

I do not believe that this is going to be resolved by a new rear jugg.  Let me try to explain my thinking on this.

I believe that were not seeing this in the front due to it gets more air there and keeps the engine within tolerances.   I believe that the motor is expanding to the point that things end up moving a tiny bit and harley hopes that the new Thicker gasket will make up for the differences in tolerances.   So far in 2 tries it hasn't, but they say replace the jugg, they didnt say exactly why this is their course of action.   Wondering if replacing the studs with race studs would stop some of the expansion and help 

Again this is my thinking, that the cylinder studs are expanding and contracting too and with that the movement comes.  I believe these juggs are thinner do to the larger bore than the 103" and they are not handling the heat and over X period of time for me about 5000 miles the jugg / gasket finally have enough wiggle room that the oil under pressure is being forced byt he gasket into the bolt holes and then out the bottom of the jugg.   

I think harley is counting on the people that dont ride a lot to only see this one time maybe a 2nd time over their 2 year warranty and then its off to extended and harley is safe.   The people that get out and ride a lot more like myself are seeing this over and over and well this hopefully fixes it, but I don't think it will. 

With the on going issues I am forced to start considering going to the 113" motor upgrade as they are not seeing this problem, the juggs are bigger, the heads are different and well all I have to do is bore the cases and pay some money.   The other consideration is to just use the millenium / axtel juggs and new pistons and go to the 124 and get some head work done and not have this problem.   

Thinking out loud to hire an attorney is about 2500 dollars to start then whatever else from there.   A forensic mechanic another 2500 - 5000.   that is 5000-7500 and no guaranteed outcome.   Might have to consider paying 6k and just get it done right.  /shrug frustrating to say the least.

Back of my mind I keep saying to myself I should have just replaced my 05 that i totaled with another 05 / 06.   

Do you think the frame can handle the bigger motor?...I am getting fully prepared for this motor to grenade itself and I don't do extended warranty stuff...3K miles and counting...I have heated the bejeezus out of it several time, today, it was the Collins Ave craawl in South Beach...At least I didn't crash or hurt my neck looking at "sites".  Good luck.

[MJZ]

Just went by the dealer and asked if there was any possibility, since my bike has not been assembled if I could get a 113 installed instead. First they said no but they could easily do the work once the bike came in. Then we had a little talk about the problem with the 110's, which they said they had never heard anything about any problems with the 110, even though I know of at least 3 07 SERK's that have had rear jugs replaced in the last few weeks by them. Anyway, they are calling MoCo in the morning and checking to see if what I am requesting is possible.

[Unbalanced]

MJZ,

Great idea, I hope it works out in your favor.   I wonder if extended covers the 113 if you have it installed at time of purchase before you take delivery.   Isn't that how it works with 6 speeds and other accessories if installed by dealer?

Best of luck with that,