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[HWYMAN1]

I have had my 2006 SEUC for about a year. 9000 miles later, have done the following to upgrade performance: zippers 575 cam( fueling oil pump, etc), RH TD, SERT, and SE AC (K&N filter, still deciding to put doherty PACC back on). REcent dyno by Jim brown of bragging rigths  got 92HP/102 torque. He felt these numbers were low but could not account for them. (A/F flat as glass).  I would still like more torque (110 to 115 range), ride two up and full gear usually 200 -300 mile ride. Looking for relliabillity,not speed, like the 103 engine, passing, performance, and gas mileage. Assuming the 575 cam are installed (have to trust wrench actually installed) what is the next step? change cams?head work? piston/head combo? I have read a bunch of post on various upgrades and I know everyone has their own opinions but what would next logical step be to maximize what i am looking for? any help appreciated , john

[SBB]

I have had my 2006 SEUC for about a year. 9000 miles later, have done the following to upgrade performance: zippers 575 cam( fueling oil pump, etc), RH TD, SERT, and SE AC (K&N filter, still deciding to put doherty PACC back on). REcent dyno by Jim brown of bragging rigths  got 92HP/102 torque. He felt these numbers were low but could not account for them. (A/F flat as glass).  I would still like more torque (110 to 115 range), ride two up and full gear usually 200 -300 mile ride. Looking for relliabillity,not speed, like the 103 engine, passing, performance, and gas mileage. Assuming the 575 cam are installed (have to trust wrench actually installed) what is the next step? change cams?head work? piston/head combo? I have read a bunch of post on various upgrades and I know everyone has their own opinions but what would next logical step be to maximize what i am looking for? any help appreciated , john

John

A question for you.

1) How does the bike really run to you? Do you want higher #'s because the bike feels slow or because the #'s are low.
The #'s don't mean squat if the bike runs good. Try another dyno, some dyno's measure low. Do you have any friends that have the same mods you can compare to on an actual run up the highway? What #'s are they showing?

If the #'s are correct and you feel the bikes needs more, then I suggest,

head rework, piston, cam and throttle body combination.

I had Freedom Cycle do my SEEG and it was 115 H/P and 123 T

Nancy's Lowrider is 95" and is 126 H/P and 121T

The Frontier is 140.9 H/P and 141.1 T

It's all about the combination first then a quality assembly next.

Good luck!

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[HWYMAN1]

I think the numbers are accurate. The seat of the pants dyno says it runs better than before the mods but a couple of times in passing just felt like it had some more guts but could not get there ( Jim Brown actually suggested the "upgrade" you suggested). I don't worship numbers just feel like it could have a little pull.

[SBB]

I think the numbers are accurate. The seat of the pants dyno says it runs better than before the mods but a couple of times in passing just felt like it had some more guts but could not get there ( Jim Brown actually suggested the "upgrade" you suggested). I don't worship numbers just feel like it could have a little pull.

John

This is the point where Harry should jump in.
He knows the combo's
My experience has been Freedom Cycle in Reno and Tman Performance in Kernersville N.C.


So Harry, if you don't want to give your cams away then how about some direction for John!


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[Unbalanced]

Otophile,

Who did the install?  Any chance they pinched the O ring on the oil pump and that your sumping oil and don't even realize it hurting your overall performance.   There are several guys on the site with this relatively same combination with much better numbers.   Firedood, 103Thunder come to mind.

Jim's dyno is on the conservative side of numbers, but those seem low to me even from Jim's dyno.  Screm'n had his bike dyno'd at Gainesville Harley and had numbers in the 125's on Jim's dyno they were 111.   

[HWYMAN1]

harry,
southern thunder in brunswick, ga did the install. I tried to get someone in jax and daytona to check out the wet sump problem, but their response  was " you should of had us do the install, we don't want to be involved in something that is already a problem". So I guess part of my question was how easy or where should I go to get the cam/ O ring checked? If this is ok, what next to get the performance desired ( I have briefly spoken to Wes Brown in Tampa and seems to be pretty straight shooter and runs a good shop) john

[Unbalanced]

John,

Wes has 2 great guys working for him.   First I would call him and setup to have Chuck or Chris look into your possible sumping issue.  Worst it will cost you is removal of the front pipe, opening the cam chest, remove and replace the O ring and put it back together / adjust the pushrods.

Once that is done and depending on the outcome,  I would consider using him for an upgrade, because he is a one stop shop.   He can do the headwork / install / tuning all on site and then guarantee what he did.   The only other one that I mentioned that can do this for you on the East Coast is T-Man.   There is one other in Daytona, don't recommend him.

I would ask Wes about his quick closing intake cam / Flat top pistons / headwork.   Can't remember off the top of my head which it is, but it makes for a stump pulling torque, and does not need high compression to do so.   Also let him know that you want to stay at 9.6 - 10.0 compression MAX.

He is just below Tampa in Pinellas Park.  Great to deal with and is a straight shooter.   If I can help in any way send me a pm I know him pretty well.



-harry

[HDguy]

I have the exact same setup as you except I have the feuling camplate, SE six speed trans and rinehart 2 into 1 exhaust.My nbrs are 90hp and 103tq.I was told and felt that my nbrs were low. I was told to check to see if the eng. was wet sumping which it wasn't.I even had the cam chest opened up to double check for a pinched "o" rings  and everything was good.

I racked my brain trying to figure out what was wrong and still don't have a clue. All I know is that it pulls hard has no driveability issues and the last time out riding two up it got 45.8 mpg.

 

[Talon]

the dynos, are basically they have a weighted roller and count revolutions of the roller. What can affect your numbers is what gear they did you runs in 5th gear will usually show higher numbers, 4th slightly lower. Is the tuner using correction software, to correct for heat and humidity, the typical correction is SAE correction 5. By changing the correction to can increase the readings. This is some of the reasons some shops show different numbers. If all things stay constant and you base line your bike and then make mods, I'd go by the increases you gain, and also how much you trust your tuner. If you bike doesn't feel like you have gained anything then you may want to talk to the tuner or go to someone else.
The bottom line is finding a GOOD tuner that you trust. A tuner can do things to make the dyno show improvements that aren't real and have done nothing to you bike, just taken your money!

[Talon]

I knew there was an article on this. HD-Dude posted this awhile ago, it talks about dyno tuning and all the scams and things you should know or ask when you look for a tuner.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=6566.0

[Midnight Rider]

John...most people seem to be getting numbers like 110+TQ and 100+ HP with setups like you have.  Is there another Dyno near you where you could just go have another pull done to compare dyno's?  If the numbers you got are accurate, they really seem unusually low, compared to others (103Thunder comes to mind).  If you could get a copy of someone else's MAP who has your setup, dump it in there, and just do a comparison seat of the pants ride to see if there's any difference, it would give you a starting point.  Each motor is different, but they are not THAT different, so nothing would be harmed doing this.  Then you'd at least have a better idea about your tune.

[erniezap]

I'm running Freedom FCC13 cams, Power Commander, K&N Air Cleaner, and a Thunderheader and I'm getting 106/116 out of it.  The same setup without the Freedom cams (different tuner) was 103/111, so I'd say your numbers are definitely low.

[HWYMAN1]

John...most people seem to be getting numbers like 110+TQ and 100+ HP with setups like you have.  Is there another Dyno near you where you could just go have another pull done to compare dyno's?  If the numbers you got are accurate, they really seem unusually low, compared to others (103Thunder comes to mind).  If you could get a copy of someone else's MAP who has your setup, dump it in there, and just do a comparison seat of the pants ride to see if there's any difference, it would give you a starting point.  Each motor is different, but they are not THAT different, so nothing would be harmed doing this.  Then you'd at least have a better idea about your tune.

Terry,
In my ultimate paranoia I have had three separate dyno tunes ( even bought a PCIII for one of them). The last with bragging rigths was best at 92/102 ( others 89/100). I think Harry's idea of check for wet sump first maybe cheapest. I guess when they get the cam box open I will eyeball to make sure the Zippers are actually in there!( now have lost faith in only local wrench ) . I am not looking for a speed demon but want more pull thru 2500 to 4000 rpm ( I can feel it wants to be there just can't quite reach it!). The guys at cycle rama did some work on an evo for me in late 90's . Wes is a straight shooter, and they look all stages of work themselves. john

[HWYMAN1]

I'm running Freedom FCC13 cams, Power Commander, K&N Air Cleaner, and a Thunderheader and I'm getting 106/116 out of it.  The same setup without the Freedom cams (different tuner) was 103/111, so I'd say your numbers are definitely low.

Ernie,
those were the numbers I was expecting with the upgrades I bought. Like I said I have hauled it to three different tuners, used SERT, PCIII, V&H oval, RH TD, numbers with sert/RH TD best , but no where near what yours produced. I am not trying worship numbers, but I do feel I can get more out of the engine. So i'll keep listening to suggestions and calling for advice. john

[HWYMAN1]

thanks to Harry and Howie on advice and hook up with Cyclerama in tampa area. Just got quote and part lists for 103 ultimate street machine:Lots of head work (port,polish,guides, etc), forged flat top piston, lifters, cylinder head studs, rocker arms, port throttle body/manifold with zipper Air breather kit. Similar dyno results 115hp/120+tq, with labor around $4600. This all sounds just like what i expected performance and price wise. Now my big question to all the motor gurus, what do you get with $2500 more for jim 120 or equivalent out of the box? Any better performance, reliabitliy, etc.? (cyclerama will actually do a 124" for $6300). The top end redo is what I would lean to, but for that kind of money i want to do it right and wonder what if? thanks john