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[grandpadoc]

I guess the 95 must have the same issues. What is the experience with the early bikes with high miles. Are there any aftermarket fixes other than gear drive ?  I hate to beat this topic to death but I'm more interested in the early twin cams.

[Talon]

The TC's before 06 had the same chain cam setup, I guess the new setup with semi-hydraulic tensors and a roller chain is suppose to be better?? I still think gears is the way to go. Below is an article on the Andrews conversion to the newer setup, and the Andrews site info.

 http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/0612_hbkp_andrews_harley_cam_conversion_kit/

http://www.andrews-products.com/motorcycle/cams/T88_99_Conv_install_Kit.htm

[grc]

I've never come across an aftermarket alternative to the chain drive other than the S&S gear drive (the one marketed by Andrews and others is the S&S product).  I have heard of folks changing out the old style chain drive for the new hydraulic tensioner/roller chain system, but that system is too new to have any good feedback on longevity issues.  Strictly from an engineering view, the roller chain, hydraulic tensioners, and new tensioner shoe material should make a big difference.  The new system is similar to one used in automotive engines for years, with no premature wear or cam timing issues like the original TC system.

I've got a feeling that from a cost perspective converting to the new chain system would probably be as expensive as the gear drive system.  Requires the new cam plate, new oil pump, new cams, new chain, and new tensioners.  Hopefully if anyone on the site has done this they will share the cost figures with us.

Jerry

[Talon]

GRC, like I said I still think gears is the way to go. If I were staying with chains, I'd probably do this conversion, the old style tensoner shoes are a crap shoot, might last 35,000 miles, might make it 5,000 miles! Plus you get a better oil pump, better pressure and savaging, as for the bearings, I'm still not sure about the new style, heard that it should be better. Unless someone comes up with something better, I think you have two choices, this conversion, or gears, the stock setup isn't a good choice unless your a gambler!!

[grandpadoc]

Thanks for the great feedback and links. I'm favoring the gear drive at this point also. Does anyone know the installed price for the
Andrews set up?

[Unbalanced]

It should be the same cost as changing a cam out.   Pipe comes off, footboard, cam cover then your internals come out as if you were pressing a cam onto the cam support plate.   Depending on lift you may or may not have to clearance the cam chest to support the lift then the rest is putting back in the support plate, cam, chains, oil pump and back together you go.
Now it is 2 bearings to replace instead of 4

[Ripp]

I have an 01 SERG with 44,000+ miles and it just started to make a winding noise with a grind when I turn it off. As I suspected my dealer says it is probably the Cam chain tensioners. I usually do my own work, but don't have time to work on it now, so they are going to do it next week.
    They say it will be about $600 for new cam tensioners or $1300 for gears (which is the way I think I will go) but they say I have to have a power commander also if I go with the gears. ($360 more) Here is my Question. Why do I have to have a power commander? Are they trying to milk me for more money or do I really need this if I go with the gear drive?  Any other tips before I have them start on it would be greatly appreciated. Is there anything else I might want them to do while I have the motor opened up to this point? Thanks, Ripp

[djkak]

I have an 01 SERG with 44,000+ miles and it just started to make a winding noise with a grind when I turn it off. As I suspected my dealer says it is probably the Cam chain tensioners. I usually do my own work, but don't have time to work on it now, so they are going to do it next week.
    They say it will be about $600 for new cam tensioners or $1300 for gears (which is the way I think I will go) but they say I have to have a power commander also if I go with the gears. ($360 more) Here is my Question. Why do I have to have a power commander? Are they trying to milk me for more money or do I really need this if I go with the gear drive?  Any other tips before I have them start on it would be greatly appreciated. Is there anything else I might want them to do while I have the motor opened up to this point? Thanks, Ripp

I just took care of my Wife's '02 1550 Stage 2 Heritage with 40,000 miles. I slipped in another set of OEM chains, sprockets, tensioners and lifters; good for another 40-50k.

I installed a gear drive in my Road Glide because my machine would destroy a set of chains and tensioners in 20K. This left me looking at a preventative replacement schedule every 15K or so.

If your machine is still in the OEM configuration and you plan to leave it that way, I would simply install new chains, primary sprockets, tensioners and lifters, and a bearing kit of course; really goes without saying. I don’t see the payback with the gear drive in your case; JMHO.

djkak

[mrigeo]

I just ordered the S&S gear drive cams yesterday. The kit was $720 and they said about 4 hours ($400) for install. I'm doing a six speed at the same time so they offered a break on the labor. My 01 SERG has 35k on it and is just starting to make a slight noise. I optioned for S&S 510 lift cams which are the same as stock. No Power Commander or other stuff. Djkak, Unless you are going with wilder cams and head work, the stock EFI should be fine.

I inquired about the Andrews 06 upgrade to the new chain and tensioners and my mechanic told me it's about $1700 and not worth the trouble or money.

[Midnight Rider]

I just ordered the S&S gear drive cams yesterday. The kit was $720 and they said about 4 hours ($400) for install. I'm doing a six speed at the same time so they offered a break on the labor. My 01 SERG has 35k on it and is just starting to make a slight noise. I optioned for S&S 510 lift cams which are the same as stock. No Power Commander or other stuff. Djkak, Unless you are going with wilder cams and head work, the stock EFI should be fine.

I inquired about the Andrews 06 upgrade to the new chain and tensioners and my mechanic told me it's about $1700 and not worth the trouble or money.

Same duration too?  If not, the combustion process might be a lot different...

[Twolanerider]

 Here is my Question. Why do I have to have a power commander? Are they trying to milk me for more money or do I really need this if I go with the gear drive? 

Ripp, if they change shoes only you stay with the same cam.  So no tuning need be changed.  Harley itself does not offer a gear driven cam for the Twin Cams though.  So a change to gear drive is also a change of the cams.  Changed cams means a change in tuning.  Since they're telling you Power Commander that simply suggests that they tune with it rather than the SERT.

[djkak]

I just ordered the S&S gear drive cams yesterday. The kit was $720 and they said about 4 hours ($400) for install. I'm doing a six speed at the same time so they offered a break on the labor. My 01 SERG has 35k on it and is just starting to make a slight noise. I optioned for S&S 510 lift cams which are the same as stock. No Power Commander or other stuff. Djkak, Unless you are going with wilder cams and head work, the stock EFI should be fine.

I inquired about the Andrews 06 upgrade to the new chain and tensioners and my mechanic told me it's about $1700 and not worth the trouble or money.

There is some risk that there will be drivability or other issues related to fuel requirements when changing cams, even though the lift is the same. I don’t have any first hand experience with the combination that you are trying so I can’t say one way or the other. The person installing the cams would be the one to answer that question.

Regarding the Andrews hydraulic conversion; I spoke with an Andrews rep a while back, and I believe that he said Andrews makes special cam for the earlier machines with a smaller diameter inboard needle bearing journal. He went on to say that the rest of the components are late model (’07 up) OE, Twin Cam. I agree that $1,700 would be a pile of money for that. I’ll double check that when I get a chance; thanks.

djkak

[mrigeo]

Djkak,

That is the same I heard about the 06 chain conversion. Andrews cams plus a bunch of harley parts.

The other question regarding the cams I ordered; the intake duration is close to stock and the exhaust is longer.

[Midnight Rider]

I am not answering for D...I do not have his expertise, but....


You are really changing a lot about the way your engine burns fuel...I would recommend a tune with the tuner your installer/mechanic is most comfortable with.  If that is the Power Commander, then that's what I would go with.  Both you and your engine will be a lot happier with the end result.  IMO, the ECM is not able to compensate adequately for the changes in intake/exhaust timing (the two things must play well together) the new cams are introducing to the engine.

[djkak]

Djkak,

That is the same I heard about the 06 chain conversion. Andrews cams plus a bunch of harley parts.

The other question regarding the cams I ordered; the intake duration is close to stock and the exhaust is longer.

.....You are really changing a lot about the way your engine burns fuel...I would recommend a tune with the tuner your installer/mechanic is most comfortable with.  If that is the Power Commander, then that's what I would go with.  Both you and your engine will be a lot happier with the end result.  IMO, the ECM is not able to compensate adequately for the changes in intake/exhaust timing (the two things must play well together) the new cams are introducing to the engine.

If your builder has specific and quality experience with the combination that you have landed on, he shouldn’t be challenged to meet your expectations with the finished product. If on the other hand the fuel requirement and drivability outcome is speculative, TCnBham makes a great recommendation that you should consider and budget for.

djkak