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[hd2003-se2005]

Thank you Mr. DAWG

We await your response!

[DCFIREMANN]

Thank you Mr. DAWG

We await your response!

Well I did in fact talk to the people at Zippers today. I had a very good conversation with them on what may or may not be the problem. First off they have tried to address the problem. They have been in contact with pappy on this matter. The revised map is exactally the one I have and I know it works. They (Zippers) could not get any exact info on how the dyno was done. The Thunder Max ECM works different than the stcok ECM. The bikes head sensor need to be at 235 degrees and the oil in the motor should be warm. If the head sensor is not at 235 the the ecm will stay in the "cold mode" and will burn rich and you will see exactally what you saw on Pappy's dyno sheet. The program that came with the ECM if hooked up when the dyno is being done will give you the head temperature. A copy of the tuning instructions was also forwarded with the new map. This should help anyone who dyno's the bike and give them all the info they need. Pappy you said there were a few people that were interested in the Zippers ECM. I can believe that anyone that knows Zippers knows Zippers knows HORSEPOWER. If you don't believe that ask Hubbard! Yes the Thunder Max ECM is something new to a lot of people including me. I do know for a fact it works. I really can't wait till I get inside my motor and get to see just how good this setup is. As I told you it is a great platform to build on.


When you look at Pappy's dyno sheet and see the rich condition it does leave me to believe the bike was not fully warmed up. If the bike is warm  I would think he would see some good numbers. The horsepower numbers are not that far off IMHO. At plus or minus 10% he should be in the century mark for horsepower. The tq numbers are lacking IMHO at plus 10% they may still be a tad bit low. This is why the bike needs to warm and the ECM working like it should.

I know how my bike runs and I LOVE IT. When pappy first installed the Zippers package he was quite happy also. Pappy I know when you saw the numbers you were quite disastified as I would have been. Take the bike to someone who will dyno the bike the way it needs to be dynoed. Your numbers might not be as high as you would like them to be, but if you wait till the fall or even winter(down there) when the air is cooler and the humidity is lower you will see the numbers you are looking for.

I hope this will help Pappy out in his quest for some good and reliable horsepower. I did not get involved to bash anyone but to help Pappy out. Pappy I hope this helps resolves the problem and you see some good numbers, if you need anything please call me or PM me.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[hd2003-se2005]

Thanks Mr. Dog!!!!!


Get a good dyno man?,?,?

Now where have I heard that before!

[pappy2]

OK latest email is as follows:

To Zippers:

To: 'Dan'
Subject: RE: RE: adjusted map


Is there any chance that you have been able to find a Zippers qualified tuner anywhere in South Florida to go ahead and dyno tune my bike to make sure all is correct and get the best performance out of the upgrade package that I bought?  

I am sure that getting this done would help me feel that all is correct and then I can return to being a very satisfied customer.  Please help me out and find me a place to get this done and over with.  Thanks JP

Zippers reply

John,
I think you are missing the point.  Zipper's generates complete, high resoloution maps that do not require tuning and we include that in the module you recieved.  This is done to eliminate costly dyno time, adding even more value to your package.  If the drivability of the bike is acceptable, running great as you said, the dyno is simply a product to generate a piece of paper to confirm your riding experience with numbers. As I stated in the previous mail to you, there are a variety of reasons those numbers you got were low.  

The engineered map was thoroughly made which took over a week to generate, the map has 1900 points of adjustment at all operating temperatures. Your engine is a direct match that map. I hate to see you spend even more money to confirm what you already know but if a dyno graph is what's needed to satisfy you, I will do my best to find a tuner that will follow our instructions as outlined and provide you with a graph.  

Your dyno data you provided was flawed, the sample temperature was incorrect,  the curves on each page are in conflict of each other yet you feel this is the basis of your problem. In addition you stated how good the engine runs until you put it on the dyno.
Again due to the high resolution, if you try to collect power numbers on the dyno with the ThunderMax system below normal operating temperature, your power and A/F ratios will be skewed.

If you want to pay someone a lot of your money to look at this work, that is your prerogative. I have no doubt that dyno testing the bike under the proper conditions will provide you with the results that you expected. I will make some calls to people I know who are competent yet be advised they have not been through training in our facility yet.

 Dan

Thanks much to all for your help and I will decide if I am going to use his guy to run more dynos and post them to let you know what happens.  The local Harley dealer may run one for free to compensate for my three trips to the dealer to get the chrome bits on the stereo controls to work right.  For now, I think I will just enjoy riding the thing and let someone else play lab rat.  It does run a ton better than it did stock and the latest richer map seems to improve the thing which clearly does not correlate with the first dyno runs.  It also runs nice and cool as I originally wanted so if the power is a little off, I may wait until they have someone trained in my area to screw around with it.  I can always take the Rocket or the Duc out for a blast to fill my skin stretching needs for now.   [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]JP

[DCFIREMANN]

Pappy after I talked to them today that is exactally what they said. I think if the bike is warmed up you will see a difference.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Unbalanced]

My S&S 124"
Thought I would post it here to make it easier to find.

[hd2003-se2005]

Unbalanced
Is that the 124 that's has the leaking or sealing problems that is not in a bike at this time?

Wasn't it in a 03 Ultra that has been sold?


[smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif]


I guess I could find the 177H/P dyno sheet from the Hayabusa I sold in 04 and post it.
No wait, this is a Harley site,
Guess I need to get the 136H/P dyno sheet from the 10.5 @132 U class AHDRA #1 champion I had 10 years ago and post it.

Nope!

If it's not in the garage then it's "has been" or "wanna be" B/S to me.

Yes, Yes,  I know there WFP (knew you were gonna ask) what about the scooters?
I have a little over a hundred miles on them, so Saturday they get the high performance treatment. I'm hoping on the dyno to show at least 3.5 to 4 H/P from them.


WHOOHOO, look out Florida! They are going to Biketoberfest!


[smiley=laugh.gif]

[WFP]

Yes, Yes,

[hd2003-se2005]

HEY Bill

A milk crate would be good!
Trying to find one for ours.

We were riding yesterday afternoon then came the blue lights. They pulled over Nancy.
Started to make a run for it. But hell on a scooter "That don't work".
I turned around and went  back. The officer was fussing at her for no helmet.
Told us even though no tag, we still had to wear them. Said it was illegal to ride without them. Then being the nice guy he was he let us ride the scoots back home and get them!
I was glad he let us go. Would hate to marry a lady with a prison record!

[smiley=laugh.gif]

[WFP]

That is too funny...why did you get away initially and not Nancy?

The Rebel and the Shadow have up to date registrations but I never had them inspected up here...I am waiting for the blue lights as I ride with the woman who is buying the Shadow...I am letting her practice a little more on the Rebel.

There is quite a bit of rust on the rebel but you know, it will now be my winter project...maybe I will tear it down completely.

/Bill

[JCZ]

Unbalanced, that's pretty impressive numbers on that dyno sheet, for a street Harley.

[Unbalanced]

HD2003,

The hacker blew most of the site away, so I posted it where it should have gone since You like to REFERENCE it.

Its being resealed at West End Cycle for any reference you would like to make of it.  
Its not a secret its not Hallowed and it was originally requested to be posted by Hubbard .   Since he wanted to see it for himself.

I am actively looking for another chassis for it.   All the other parts are in the garage waiting.  I should have the motor back Wednesday or Thursday this week.

Once I have it back in a frame then it makes a difference? ... not really its just another toy to enjoy.   At the time I wanted a Red SEEG and it was a trade off because I enjoyed the first one I had so much.     [smiley=beerchug.gif]

lets see take motor out / buy another SEEG and redo it in a few months....  Wish I had a spare 30k it would have never been touched.

Hallowed no.... Maybe by bike week you will be down and get to see it running.

[Unbalanced]

SEEG 04 Pumpkin

[Unbalanced]

05 Cherry SEEG

[mr_magoo]

Had been asked to repost my dyno sheet for the orange bike.