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Author Topic: Statistical Poll for 2007 110" owners  (Read 80520 times)

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Robmay

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #225 on: November 26, 2007, 06:41:31 PM »

Dam Rob, don't take you long to tear a bike all to pieces!!! Just rode wth ya 3 days ago!

Yeah........... my bike got a complex after riding with that V-Rod of yours and pissed itself!

Oh BTW EVERYBODY.................... KEN THINKS I'M SWEEEEEET!!!!! Said I was cuter than even him AND AJ.................. :-*
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 06:43:33 PM by Robmay »
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Torque

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #226 on: November 26, 2007, 06:42:06 PM »

7,000 miles on SE Ultra Classic, 1 year old, zero problems
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Fired00d

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #227 on: November 26, 2007, 06:44:04 PM »

Yeah........... my got got a complex after riding with that V-Rod of yours and pissed itself!

Oh BTW EVERYBODY.................... KEN THINKS I'M SWEEEEEET!!!!! Said I was cuter than even him AND AJ.................. :-*
Hmmm. Where was the movie "Deliverance" filmed at?? Wasn't Kentucky was it?? Rob you better be very careful. :huepfenlol2:

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HogBreath

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #228 on: November 26, 2007, 06:51:12 PM »

Yeah........... my bike got a complex after riding with that V-Rod of yours and pissed itself!

Oh BTW EVERYBODY.................... KEN THINKS I'M SWEEEEEET!!!!! Said I was cuter than even him AND AJ.................. :-*

BUY me beer, and I'm liable to say anything.
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HogBreath

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #229 on: November 26, 2007, 07:12:19 PM »

RobMay...

A face that only a mother could love.
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Robmay

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #230 on: November 26, 2007, 07:27:20 PM »

RobMay...

A face that only a mother could love.


My wife, Annette, said she loves my face TOO!! :jalapeno:
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Robmay

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #231 on: November 26, 2007, 08:41:59 PM »

Chief,

When I went down and took the pictures I asked the shop foreman and manager about the crank runout check. They said they would have to split the case to check it properly. I thought to myself...... 'boy, this is gonna go over like a turd in a punch bowl on the cvo site.........."

Rob
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Robmay

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #232 on: November 26, 2007, 08:49:15 PM »

Maybe this is what he is referring to:

From HD Tech Tip 324  (posted on this site in entirety)

1. Primary Drive Inspection
Remove the primary cover and inspect the driveline.
• Compensating sprocket assembly, Visual damage, Chain run-out
Excessive run-out (tight to loose spots) is one symptom of a shifted left side
crankshaft half
2. Inspection of the left side crankshaft run-out requires a dial indicator, magnetic base
and an angle iron mounting plate, and tools to remove the compensating assembly.
3. Crankshaft run-out inspection procedures
• Remove the spark plugs and primary chain tensioner assembly
A late model primary chain auto-tensioner will need to be “reloaded” prior to
reinstallation, per Section 6 of the appropriate Service Manual
• Remove the compensating sprocket assembly, leaving the clutch in place
Reinstall the sprocket nut or bolt to rotate the engine during inspection.
• Mount the angle iron to the primary housing gasket surface and attach the
magnetic base for the dial indicator parallel to the gasket surface
• Position the indicator on the end of the shaft at 90° (in both directions) to ensure
an accurate reading
• Mark your start spot with a marker and zero the gauge
• You will measure directly off the high spot of the splines, and must be careful not
to knock the indicator out of zero while taking your readings
o Do not bolt on the shaft adapter and attempt to reads off its surface, or attempt to
use anything threaded into the shaft. This will provide excessive run-out readings
as you are not precisely on center.
o Ignore the low “spikes” you will see on the dial indicator when it drops into the
“valleys” of the splined shaft. You are only interested in comparing the
differences in height of the high spots of the splines to determine total run-out.
o Don’t worry if you miss one or two of the ten to twenty-four teeth. You should still
be able to determine if the Service Wear Limit has been exceeded.
• The Service Wear limit of the left crankshaft in the crankcase is 0.012”
If your reading exceeds 0.012” and is under warranty stop and contact Technical
Service to discuss the appropriate repair or inspection procedures before continuing.
If the vehicle is out of warranty you will need to discuss the appropriate repair with the
customer (ESP coverage, flywheel replacement, dealer level rebuild, or factory Reman).
In order to take a more accurate reading of the crankshaft run-out it will require
removing the flywheels from the crankcases.
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skreminegul07

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #233 on: November 27, 2007, 07:36:57 AM »

If checking the runout is acceptable enough for HD to authorize several dozen replacement motors, it should be good enough for that dealer.  More labor $ for him to split the cases. 
I'd tell him do it for free, OK.  If I'm paying check the runout from the cam cover side.  It's almost out there now from your pics.
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skreminegul07

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #234 on: November 27, 2007, 07:41:40 AM »

Chief,

As others have said you can feel the sleeve as it has slid upwards, but hard to capture on a photo. I have attached one below with two red arrows on each side of the sleeve. Where the point of the arrow is on the outside arrow is the spot where you can feel the lip.

Rob, thanks for the picture.  I'm putting it with the others on the wall of shame.

Can someone explain how this sleeve can slide up if it is against the head and head gasket.  How does this cause the leak.
Can someone indicate on Rob's photo the path that the oil is taking to run down the stud hole?

I've been wanting to know this for quite some time.
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sadunbar

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #235 on: November 27, 2007, 09:06:45 AM »

Rob, thanks for the picture.  I'm putting it with the others on the wall of shame.

Can someone explain how this sleeve can slide up if it is against the head and head gasket.  How does this cause the leak.
Can someone indicate on Rob's photo the path that the oil is taking to run down the stud hole?

I've been wanting to know this for quite some time.

I would suspect different expansion rates of the two types of metal (aluminum cylinder and cast iron liner) and repetitive heating and cooling.  I further suspect after enough of these heat cycles, the head bolts begin to loose torque - enough that the leaks appear.
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Robmay

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #236 on: November 27, 2007, 10:57:24 AM »

I would suspect different expansion rates of the two types of metal (aluminum cylinder and cast iron liner) and repetitive heating and cooling.  I further suspect after enough of these heat cycles, the head bolts begin to loose torque - enough that the leaks appear.

I think this is dead on. One of the techs agreed that it was due to the heat in his opinion.

If checking the runout is acceptable enough for HD to authorize several dozen replacement motors, it should be good enough for that dealer.  More labor $ for him to split the cases. 
I'd tell him do it for free, OK.  If I'm paying check the runout from the cam cover side.  It's almost out there now from your pics.


The dealer I was at was not busy at all so I don't think they are trying to shirk () away from doing it. I asked for an estimate to do it and when they told me they would have to split the case to do it right I opted not to do it. I do not want to open her up if I do not have to do it as I feel that would create more problems.

I know this is a problem. It is obvious by the numbers on here alone that it is an issue. Do I think MOCO will recall them or cover the same leaks after regular or extended warranty runs out? No I do not. BUT... I do feel my dealer is doing right enough at the moment to satisfy me and MOCO. They have to find that balance between profit and repeat customer business (MOCO and the dealer). I know the bikes and clothes are hugely marked up but so is the image. It takes a lot of money to build those nice fancy buildings we have come so accustomed to frequent anytime we get near one. It takes money to run a business. It take A LOT of money to run an image based business. Time I think is beginning to tell whether or not they have enough loyalty left after situations like these. I think the lack of work in some of there shops MAY be an indication of that (not taking care of the customer). But... it is also slow in a lot of areas right now. So who knows.

Is there even a fix to this leak issue....... I don't think so. Not until they go water cooled probably. Does anyone know if this has been even a slight problem with the stock 96 ci? Because I know those are hot as hell as well.

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Eqcons

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #237 on: November 27, 2007, 11:08:35 AM »

Since there definitely seems to be a pattern emerging here, where the moving liner does sound like the logical explanation for the head gasket failures, and in turn the high temp in that rear cylinder with the differential rates of expansion of the dissimilar metals makes the liner movement logical, I think that there IS a fix that the MoCo could implement.

A stepped liner.  Of course, if the liner moves up as well as down, that's not so easy...

Jim
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skreminegul07

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #238 on: November 27, 2007, 11:43:41 AM »

Everyone agrees that heat is the catalyst that maybe finally tested an old reliable design to the point it is not worthy. 
maybe this is what will convince the engineers and management that water cooled is the answer.
Victory are 100"/106" air cooled and EPA compliant.  How do they hold up?  I've been on a 2007 on a real hot day and did not feel excessive heat. 

I agree that that is no real fix with the current design.  It will take new cylinder design or manaufacturing process to remedy.  Does anyone know if the cylinders have changed part number?
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bisounours

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Re: Statistical Poll for 110" owners
« Reply #239 on: November 27, 2007, 02:53:03 PM »

Chief,

As others have said you can feel the sleeve as it has slid upwards, but hard to capture on a photo. I have attached one below with two red arrows on each side of the sleeve. Where the point of the arrow is on the outside arrow is the spot where you can feel the lip.

Today, I spoke with my dealer and he had seen this problem on the last leaker CVO.
Before, on the others, he had look not at this place.
He milled the sleeve before to put the new head gaskets. It's a test.
Now, the bike had 2000 miles and no leak. But it's too early for a conclusion.

Jacques
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