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Author Topic: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson  (Read 19725 times)

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MJZ

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2007, 08:22:57 PM »

Elvis is waiting on a part from Baker that was shipped several weeks ago. I understand, as of Friday they reordered and had the part over-nighted. I am not upset because there is only 1 wrench I will let work on my bikes and he is snowed under. In fact, he is about 6 -8 weeks out for appointments and I have always dropped off and told him get to it when he can, since I always have other rides and I feel people with break downs of their only bike should take preference.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2007, 08:40:58 PM »


OMG Mark

Please don't let BB see these pictures.
He will have a stroke!
What in the world are you having done to a bike that has everything?

 :o :o :o :o

Good grief MJ.  What Chip said!

What in the world are you having done to Elvis?  There is more than just moto-lights going on there.

Spider, buddy, find your meds man.  It's all just a dream!
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gremlush

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2007, 10:24:30 PM »

I put the Andrews 32H cams in my springer today {less than 3 hours} and removed the top rocker box so I could use my stock pushrods {light} and the valve springs were VERY close to the bottom box ! One was touching a little but this motor has been VERY quiet. Anyway ,shaft run-out was .002 ! Everything in the cam area looked good,oil pump ,no wear on the tensioner shoes {2500 miles} etc. Pulled the cam cover off without taking the ex. pipe off. Ran out of time,will fire it tommorro. I was very happy about the .002 run out  ! Been happier if it was .001 , but still happy. Putting in new cams in these 07-08s  is very easy and quick. You can problably do it in 2 hours if you use adj. pushrods. Will problably dyno next weekend. Dewey
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rednectum

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2007, 11:14:42 PM »

I put the Andrews 32H cams in my springer today {less than 3 hours} and removed the top rocker box so I could use my stock pushrods {light} and the valve springs were VERY close to the bottom box ! One was touching a little but this motor has been VERY quiet. Anyway ,shaft run-out was .002 ! Everything in the cam area looked good,oil pump ,no wear on the tensioner shoes {2500 miles} etc. Pulled the cam cover off without taking the ex. pipe off. Ran out of time,will fire it tommorro. I was very happy about the .002 run out  ! Been happier if it was .001 , but still happy. Putting in new cams in these 07-08s  is very easy and quick. You can problably do it in 2 hours if you use adj. pushrods. Will problably dyno next weekend. Dewey

same amount of time for adjustables, and nobody wants quick installs in their bike.
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SE08RK

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #94 on: October 08, 2007, 06:47:13 AM »

I put the Andrews 32H cams in my springer today {less than 3 hours} and removed the top rocker box so I could use my stock pushrods {light} and the valve springs were VERY close to the bottom box ! One was touching a little but this motor has been VERY quiet. Anyway ,shaft run-out was .002 ! Everything in the cam area looked good,oil pump ,no wear on the tensioner shoes {2500 miles} etc. Pulled the cam cover off without taking the ex. pipe off. Ran out of time,will fire it tommorro. I was very happy about the .002 run out  ! Been happier if it was .001 , but still happy. Putting in new cams in these 07-08s  is very easy and quick. You can problably do it in 2 hours if you use adj. pushrods. Will problably dyno next weekend. Dewey

If the cam base circle diameter is within .020 of the stock cam dimension and the rockers are correct, you can use stock push-rods anyhow for the weight reduction. Or, you can make that measurement and have a set of solid push-rods made to the proper spec. The rocker geometry can be accounted for with a tiny bit of extra assembly/disassembly as well but they should be appropriately shaped geometrically for the TC in the first place... There is a lot to be said about NOT using adjustable push-rods.
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gremlush

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #95 on: October 08, 2007, 10:32:46 AM »

I have been doing this stuff for a LONG time ! Porting H-D heads since 1978 and I tell my customers to use S.E. "perect fit'  -.030 or -.060 instead of adj. why ? They are alot lighter and NEVER come loose. The 32 cams had indentical base circles. You will know when one comes loose , lots of clatter and motor drops to one cylinder in 30 seconds !
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TN

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #96 on: October 08, 2007, 03:32:25 PM »

my new engine pt # 19176-07A.

they tried to fix prior with new cyl studs, cyl, rings, and gaskets.
reason stated to me for engine replacement was lower case o-ring not seating.

mi @ 13444, have logged 300mi er so and all seems well, engine at stock config.


Ride ON

TN
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cdog

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #97 on: October 09, 2007, 01:49:02 AM »

Let's not forget that a rider in Kentucky was killed on an 07 SERK when it locked during the labor dayweekend last month.  According to others there, they heard the motor go and whell lock up on the highway.

Look, people have to stop saying this kind of thing....

ANY motor on ANY vehicle can have a catastropic failure that causes it to lock up/seize.   A Ferrari, a helicopter, a Vespa -- they can all lock up their motors.  What happens?  Well, the cars spin, the helicopter starts heading down, and the Vespa...um I dont know...wrecks maybe.  Maybe going too slow to actually wreck.

The point is that any HD (or Honda, Suzuki, etc.) bike can blow its motor, instantly lock its wheel, and kill the rider.  It is VERY RARE.  This has always been a known risk of motorcycling (or driving a manual car, or a helicopter, etc.) 

The extremists on here have everyone scared to ride their bikes for fear of a freakin' lockup, when the odds against that are huge...  Way slimmer than your odds of being flattened by a minivan.

So, please layoff the "blew up, locked up, and killed him" stuff, especially since we can't even confirm any cases of motor failure actually causing a wreck on a 96 or 110.

 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 01:51:18 AM by cdog »
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Twolanerider

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #98 on: October 09, 2007, 02:04:32 AM »



So, please layoff the "blew up, locked up, and killed him" stuff, especially since we can't even confirm any cases of motor failure actually causing a wreck on a 96 or 110.

 


CD, first person accounts are all we have here.  The anecdotal second person account cited above is nothing more than that.  But there are at least two first person accounts from members here who have suffered lockups that caused spills.  Short of solid documentary evidence or actually seeing it happen one's self one can't know for sure of course.  But as well as we can know anything here we "know" it's happened at least those two times.

Fortunately the injuries related to each were never described as major.  One moderate and one relatively light.  Those are products of circumstance and not feats of engineering though.  The accidents could just as easily have happened on a curve against a deep ravine as they might on a flat spot going slow.

Most everyone here rides; and not just a little.  Everyone knows the risks we take EVERY time we hop on the saddle.  It is not too much to ask that this risk not be made even minimally greater by poor design or implementation.  Engines that fail, potentially catastrophically, at a rate at all greater than the statistical norm are an increase in that risk. 

It's not a scare tactic of any kind to discuss the realities of the matter.  It is, simply, a discussion.  It is unfortunate that the realities seem to be what they are.  But you can count on the fact that, at site whose reason for being is discussion, discussion will take place.
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SE08RK

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #99 on: October 09, 2007, 07:11:27 AM »

Amen to that! The primary concern here when riding is "what the heck are those other nuts on the highway going to do this time", not "is my engine going to lock up"? And yes, discussion is the object with these forums, not chest beating or being thin skinned! Lower lip quivering during a debate is grounds for disqualification!
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skreminegul07

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #100 on: October 09, 2007, 07:44:33 AM »

Look, people have to stop saying this kind of thing....

ANY motor on ANY vehicle can have a catastropic failure that causes it to lock up/seize.   A Ferrari, a helicopter, a Vespa -- they can all lock up their motors.  What happens?  Well, the cars spin, the helicopter starts heading down, and the Vespa...um I dont know...wrecks maybe.  Maybe going too slow to actually wreck.

The point is that any HD (or Honda, Suzuki, etc.) bike can blow its motor, instantly lock its wheel, and kill the rider.  It is VERY RARE.  This has always been a known risk of motorcycling (or driving a manual car, or a helicopter, etc.) 

The extremists on here have everyone scared to ride their bikes for fear of a freakin' lockup, when the odds against that are huge...  Way slimmer than your odds of being flattened by a minivan.

So, please layoff the "blew up, locked up, and killed him" stuff, especially since we can't even confirm any cases of motor failure actually causing a wreck on a 96 or 110.

 

Any motor can lock up, but I believe that everyone of these excessive crank runout motors documented on this site would go that route in short order.  I can't back it up with numbers, but it seems that for the number of 110 motors represented here, the odds are above the expected for a catastrophic motor failure.   IMHO.
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grc

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #101 on: October 09, 2007, 09:09:29 AM »

Look, people have to stop saying this kind of thing....

ANY motor on ANY vehicle can have a catastropic failure that causes it to lock up/seize.   A Ferrari, a helicopter, a Vespa -- they can all lock up their motors.  What happens?  Well, the cars spin, the helicopter starts heading down, and the Vespa...um I dont know...wrecks maybe.  Maybe going too slow to actually wreck.

The point is that any HD (or Honda, Suzuki, etc.) bike can blow its motor, instantly lock its wheel, and kill the rider.  It is VERY RARE.  This has always been a known risk of motorcycling (or driving a manual car, or a helicopter, etc.)  
The extremists on here have everyone scared to ride their bikes for fear of a freakin' lockup, when the odds against that are huge...  Way slimmer than your odds of being flattened by a minivan.

So, please layoff the "blew up, locked up, and killed him" stuff, especially since we can't even confirm any cases of motor failure actually causing a wreck on a 96 or 110.

 

I would like to suggest that while it used to be very rare, it obviously is much less rare with the '07 H-D.  This forum reflects the experiences of just a tiny percentage of all  Harley riders, and yet we have at least two first person reports on this site of engines locking up and causing a crash.  On top of that, there have been others who just had their engines quit running while running down the highway due to ACR failures, or who lost oil pressure and shut the engine down prior to it locking up.  These types of failures are also dangerous if you suddenly lose power and mobility in heavy traffic.

You can look at a situation like this in several ways.  Some would say we need to publicize and hammer at the issues to force the MoCo to address them, as well as to warn potential victims customers of the possibilities.  Obviously, others seem to think we should shut up, drink the Kool-Aid, and let the potential victims customers venture forth into the world of Harley with blinders on.  All I can tell you is that I appreciate knowing about these potential problems before the fact.  Assuming I had lost my mind and traded for an '07, knowing the engine had an increased risk of lockup would cause me to be more aware of changes in operating characteristics.  It would also allow me to modify my riding style to include always riding with my fingers on the clutch lever.  And if publicizing all of this causes some to pass on buying the MoCo's latest flawed offering, so be it.  If enough people quit accepting this kind of product quality, perhaps the complacency and arrogance in Milwaukee could be shaken enough to result in improvements for all concerned.

BTW - if you go back a few years in the archives, you won't find engines locking up due to defective crankshafts being discussed.  However, you will find plenty of conversation about high speed wobbles which also caused a few crashes.  Those discussions prompted some to seek modifications to eliminate the wobbles, and others to adjust their riding styles to avoid the issue.  I like to think those discussions may have helped save one or more people from a very painful experience, or worse.

Jerry

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #102 on: October 09, 2007, 04:09:16 PM »

grc

i could not agree with you more, i think unless you have experienced this 07 fiasco and have it become a part of your life,  you really don't know how bad it could be.  if i thought for a moment, that my post would help a brother or sister from  being hurt.   i would write more then i have.

i think harley has a lot of balls putting loyal customers on a bike that they know have engine flaws !!!

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VAZHOG

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #103 on: October 09, 2007, 05:52:58 PM »

grc

i could not agree with you more, i think unless you have experienced this 07 fiasco and have it become a part of your life,  you really don't know how bad it could be.  if i thought for a moment, that my post would help a brother or sister from  being hurt.   i would write more then i have.

i think harley has a lot of balls putting loyal customers on a bike that they know have engine flaws !!!



HD has that worked out by actuarials You won't live long enough to be a repeat customer much less loyal.
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mr_magoo

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Re: Update 110" Replacement Motor Installed by Harley Davidson
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2007, 09:34:20 AM »

Well bike went back to the shop yesterday.  Motor making a lot of noise and has vibration again.  I think it's the compensator nut loose or so I hope.  If it's the crank it went fast less than 2,000 miles since Freedom did the work and said run out was .002 and it was a nice tight motor.
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