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[skreminegul07]

This month's Hot Bike Vol 39, No. 12 (no month on the cover) has a great look inside the S7S X Wedge motor.  Seems that their design address most issues with the 45 degree V twin.  Some of the changes are right from the automotive world.  Specifically thinking of the 110" issues:
They uses a one piece crank with two piece automotive style rods
No oil passage in the cylinders, oil returns thru the push rods, more casting, more fin area
Beefier cylinders with 5 stud mounting
quiet serpentine belt to run the cams that if it breaks no valve contact
Wedge combustion chambers
53 degree Offset cylinders to allow for more piston clearance
list goes on. 

Great reading.

[Road_Glider]

How much you want to bet that HD is wishing they had designed this motor. 

This month's Hot Bike Vol 39, No. 12 (no month on the cover) has a great look inside the S7S X Wedge motor.  Seems that their design address most issues with the 45 degree V twin.  Some of the changes are right from the automotive world.  Specifically thinking of the 110" issues:
They uses a one piece crank with two piece automotive style rods
No oil passage in the cylinders, oil returns thru the push rods, more casting, more fin area
Beefier cylinders with 5 stud mounting
quiet serpentine belt to run the cams that if it breaks no valve contact
Wedge combustion chambers
53 degree Offset cylinders to allow for more piston clearance
list goes on. 

Great reading.

[grc]

How much you want to bet that HD is wishing they had designed this motor. 

Better yet, what does it tell us when an aftermarket company can design and build a new engine which appears to address emissions issues without compromising dependability and performance, while the big guy (MoCo) spends it's development dollars on a few new chrome bits and a factory takeoff on the wide tire customs of several years ago (Rocker).  You know, I wonder if there's anyone left at Harley who understands why the vehicle is called a motorcycle.  

Considering the price inflation and lack of quality/reliability from the Custom Vehicles Operation group, I believe we are getting closer and closer to the time when it would make more sense to buy a true custom using nothing but aftermarket components, including the engine.  May not be the solution for those who need the "lifestyle" fix, but for those of us who just like to ride without all the drama it is starting to look like a better choice.

Jerry

[nidan]

I've read a few articles , including road tests of the Xwedge . Sounds promising , but they were talking high 90's hp and 110 ft lbs from a 117.  My 103 makes that ...

[skreminegul07]

It seems to an outsider that the guys at S&S started with a fresh sketchpad and laid out what they were trying to accomplish, dependable, simple to build, not prohibitively expensive, powerful, meets emissions.
Then they looked at everything wrong with the previous V Twin designs.
Then they took tried and true automotive design engineering instead of re inventing the wheel.  The components sort of look like one fourth of a small block chevy, even down to the 1.7 ratio roller rockers I used to race.  It looks like it's simple to maintain as well.

They were not marketing driven or limited by how to build it cheaper mentality.

S&S also started this design in 2002.  At HD, they are already planning the 110th Anniversary party, logo, shirts, not the next design of the motors.

[RedFXR2]

Sounds promising , but they were talking high 90's hp and 110 ft lbs from a 117.  My 103 makes that ...

It's too early to know yet, but what if the X Wedge makes its HP and torque while being leak free, trouble free, and requiring only scheduled maintenance, for say, 100,000 miles.  A vast majority of folks would gladly trade a few HP and ft-lbs for a bike they could ride more and fiddle with less.

[sadunbar]

It seems to an outsider that the guys at S&S started with a fresh sketchpad and laid out what they were trying to accomplish, dependable, simple to build, not prohibitively expensive, powerful, meets emissions.
Then they looked at everything wrong with the previous V Twin designs.
Then they took tried and true automotive design engineering instead of re inventing the wheel.  The components sort of look like one fourth of a small block chevy, even down to the 1.7 ratio roller rockers I used to race.  It looks like it's simple to maintain as well.

They were not marketing driven or limited by how to build it cheaper mentality.

S&S also started this design in 2002.  At HD, they are already planning the 110th Anniversary party, logo, shirts, not the next design of the motors.

What did you race?

[RedFXR2]

It seems to an outsider that the guys at S&S started with a fresh sketchpad and laid out what they were trying to accomplish, dependable, simple to build, not prohibitively expensive, powerful, meets emissions.
Then they looked at everything wrong with the previous V Twin designs.
Then they took tried and true automotive design engineering instead of re inventing the wheel.  The components sort of look like one fourth of a small block chevy, even down to the 1.7 ratio roller rockers I used to race.  It looks like it's simple to maintain as well.

They were not marketing driven or limited by how to build it cheaper mentality.

S&S also started this design in 2002.  At HD, they are already planning the 110th Anniversary party, logo, shirts, not the next design of the motors.

Stop making so much sense.

You and grc should never apply for jobs at HD.  You'd be hopeless misfits.

[skreminegul07]

Stop making so much sense.

You and grc should never apply for jobs at HD.  You'd be hopeless misfits.

I'll take that as a complement!  It's sort of a curse.  It goes with practical, inflexible, logical, and three or four other dwarves!

I did spend 20 years in product support in a computer firm being a thorn in the side of R&D to build better and easier to maintain products.

[Hoist!]

Just throwing this out there guys. Pointing out that the X-Wedge is a crankshaft motor, not a flywheel motor. Kinda setup like drag racing motors, where S&S has loads of experience. I checked to see, and it can't be retrofitted into our current bikes. If it can be modified to fit in our frames, you'd still need to replace the entire drivetrain. This would be too cost prohibitive, vs buying a TC 124 from S&S and having it "tweaked" for 140/140. I introduced this story to this board months ago in another thread I started. I was looking to try to use it. You're better off building a custom from scratch with it, or buying a Big Dog with it, than trying to get these engines in our current CVO bikes!

Hoist!

[RedFXR2]

I'll take that as a complement!  It's sort of a curse.  It goes with practical, inflexible, logical, and three or four other dwarves!

I did spend 20 years in product support in a computer firm being a thorn in the side of R&D to build better and easier to maintain products.

It is a compliment.

Former engineer in manufacturiing industries here.  Many talks with design guys to explain how it's much easier to draw something than actually make it.  And how all drawings are easy to maintain and have long service lives.  

[erniezap]

I read the article the other day.  Something about having 3 cams for 2 cylinders just doesn't sit right with me...

I'll also stick with my gear drive cams versus a belt driven setup, especially since belts stretch which will throw off the valve timing.

[RedFXR2]

I'll also stick with my gear drive cams versus a belt driven setup, especially since belts stretch which will throw off the valve timing.

A whole bunch of car motors have been using rubber timing belts for 60K to 100K miles between changes.  How long do HD chain tensioner shoes last?  The belt thing doesn't bother me.

[Steve_G]

I just saw this motor last night one American Thunder on TV.  Looks pretty good to me!  This is their first year out with it but I'd bet they won't have as many problems as HD does with a motor they've been tweeking for what- about 100 years?