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[grak]

I had my flhrse4 in the shop after 600 miles to have the top end evaluated.  I had a very noisy 07 se springer that had the valve springs rubbing the rocker boxes.  I just got my roadking back and the mechanic ground down the rocker boxes on this bike as well but it seems to still have a fairly loud valve train.  This is my 4th Harley.  Has anyone had similiar issues and I am interested in finding out what it took to fix it.  Thanks

[Break-In]

I have around 3000 mile on my 08 SERK and have not encountered that problem.

[Gecko]

You betcha, mine had the clearance done early on, and now the noise is back louder than before.  You can actually hear it over Supertrapp SE mufflers while wearing a helmet and ear plugs.  It's worst at 2000 rpm.  The dealer claims that HD says it's "within the normal range" (I'm guessing they listened to it over the phone?) and won't do anything more unless it gets worse.  Worse would be pushrods poking holes in the rocker boxes I suppose.  My Evo with a more aggressive cam makes a lot less noise.  Disaster of an engine.

[SE08RK]

This '08 SERK has been noisy from the beginning. I have replaced the rocker arms, shimmed the rocker arms, clearanced  the rocker boxes,  and anything I  and the dealer could do to quiet the valve train. The roller rockers helped but it continues to be noisier than I think it should be.

[grak]

Has anyone tried the adjustable push rods to see if the slop can be taken up a bit to cut down on the clatter?

[SE08RK]

I spent a lot of time on this engine working on ideas like that. I went so far as to remove the rocker assemblies and install a set of Crane Cams adjustable pushrods and go through the adjustment procedure. Then removed the rocker assemblies to remove the push rods and measure them against the solid ones. The most difference among all of them was a measly .015 after all that work. So I reinstalled the solids with the SE roller rockers. The roller rockers are actually quieter than the stock ones but still way more clatter than I would expect. I believe my next trial is going to be a set of new lifters to see what that does. There has got to be a reason. I have checked clearance all around the valve spring retainers, clayed the covers for the roller rocker clearance, etc, etc....getting tedious now, and the mechanics at the dealership say it is "normal noise". Certainly looks like HD would be a bit embarrassed allowing their high dollar CVO engine to sound like this and then coheres their technicians into saying it's normal.

BC

[grak]

What surprises me the most is that on my bike it doesn't sound like the entire valve train is noisy, more like one valve that clatters a lot at 2k when you come off the throttle.  It's just frustrating to have such a great bike, yet have this crapy noise most of the time.  The weird thing is that at times it's not a noisy as others.  I wish there was a fix, I want my bike to sound as good as it looks.  Thanks everyone for your imput.

[Quint]

Grak

I have about 1,300 miles on my 08 and I have a noisy top end as well. It's a clattery, high pitched metallic sound, as you say, right around 2,000 rpm, particularly when you wind off the throttle. At the 1,000 mile service, I asked the dealer to look at it. Nothing. I asked what they found. They said that everything's normal. Didn't even look at it, I suspect.

I agree that it's an annoying mechanical sound, and I can hear it over my Rinehart TDs, which are not quiet! I'm going to let it go until the next service, unless it gets any worse.

[SE08RK]

This one is making most of the noise at about 2000 - 2200, but at highway speed it sounds fine, but I know it's still there. The noise is as you guys describe: 'like a single tick or clatter and it seems toward the front of the engine top end, like the forward exhaust valve'. Using a piece of small rubber hose to an ear and directed around the front cylinder/head, it seems to be loud at the top exhaust but also at the bottom of the front cylinder.

These thoughts comes to mind:

1. The cams are now a built-up composite of parts. The lobes are separate pieces, pressed on or splined onto the cam shaft. Are we hearing a lobe that is loose on the shaft? 

2. The front cam is free to move in any direction in its radial bearing/bushing tolerance. The rear one is the driven cam so has chain tension down to the pinion shaft and a hydraulic chain tensioner. So that camshaft is reasonably held in a direction or is stable as far as bearing slop. The front cam is free in the vertical direction and is at the particular load of the valve spring return pressure dependent on the lifters and the valve timing position. The cam outer support plate now (in '08) has no ball or roller bearings in it. The outer ends of the cam run in bushings or in a hole simply bored through the aluminum plate with no actual bushing stock except for the aluminum support plate. Are we hearing a loose fitting forward cam in the outer cam bushing?

3. The cam chain tensioners are now hydraulic (oil pressure) operated to keep the chain correctly tightened to avoid the back of the lobe/roller tappet from clacking against the chain on the down slope of the exhaust tappet. Are we hearing some slop in the timing chain that the tensioner is not adequately keeping tight? - this one is vague -

4. Are we hearing "normal noise"? Nope, I don't think so! ( I need to stop thinking about this engine while I ride!)

I have done everything to the upper end possible. I was planning on going to the timing area next but why should I chase this? This is a brand new engine....Do we need to change cams to have an engine that will perform AND run without clattering? I don't mind a noisy engine, that is; one that has 100,000 miles on it. I have a BMW R100/7 that has some top end noise but it has 98,500 miles on it!

Exasperating to say the least.. and, also pissing me off.

BC

[skreminegul07]

I feel for you guys but I hope you don't develop leaks or crank runout.  You know that these engines are not going to die of old age, that's for sure.  They are going to be ripped apart again and again and fail catastrophically when you least suspect it.  I forgot I had that rocker noise way back, engine 1 at low mileage.  Had the rocker boxes clearanced and it went away.  Engine 2:  had them check and the factory had already done it.  You 2008's guys should have motors that are quiet.  Maybe its a new issue?  Hope not.
Yippee!  Sorry to be negative, I think HD needs to give us prescriptions for anti depressants.

[grc]

Grak

I have about 1,300 miles on my 08 and I have a noisy top end as well. It's a clattery, high pitched metallic sound, as you say, right around 2,000 rpm, particularly when you wind off the throttle. At the 1,000 mile service, I asked the dealer to look at it. Nothing. I asked what they found. They said that everything's normal. Didn't even look at it, I suspect.

I agree that it's an annoying mechanical sound, and I can hear it over my Rinehart TDs, which are not quiet! I'm going to let it go until the next service, unless it gets any worse.

According to the Harley dealers I've had the misfortune to directly deal with so far, anything and everything is "normal".  Ever heard that expression "Factory Trained Technicians"?  That's what the factory trains them to say, obviously, since so many give us the exact same BS.  Much easier (and cheaper for the MoCo) to just give you the standard 10 second blow-off, as opposed to performing some testing and repair.

Next time your dealership gives you this fast answer, ask them to let you ride two other bikes similar to yours (bagger/bagger, dyna/dyna, etc.) to prove their assertion that yours is "normal".  I used that approach many, many times in my days as a service rep in the auto industry to show a customer that their issue was indeed "normal", rather than just blow them off with a quick answer.  With all the extra bikes sitting around the average dealer nowdays, shouldn't be a problem for them to let you ride a couple.

An air cooled Harley is going to have some valve train noise, there is no way to completely eliminate it with the current design.  Early 110's had an issue with the rocker box to valve spring clearance that caused an abnormal noise - that would be the first thing a knowledgeable dealership should check.  Another potential cause is a defective hydraulic lifter.  Running a leakdown test on each lifter, assuming the dealership has the equipment and knowledge, is another possible response.  In other words, there are things they can check and verify rather than just blow you off.  And if your bike falls within the normal range, they should be willing to take the time to prove it to you.

BTW - don't know why this thought popped into my head right now, but there is another possible source for "clicking".  Fuel injectors can set up a pretty good clatter, which you can verify by sticking your head under the hood of your average car or truck.  Some are so loud they sound like an old solid lifter engine in need of a valve adjustment.

Jerry

[SE08RK]

After doing some looking and a bit of research, I found that the cams in the CVO's are one piece (SE 255's). The '07 96's have the three piece cams. So, eliminate that possibility....

Yes, I plan to replace the lifters. That would be called 'throwing parts at the problem' but what is the alternative? The dealers won't help. Square wheels on a Harley is "normal" to their 'technicians' (using the term very loosely). (I used to know a girl named Loosley, or was it Lucy, anyway she was a lot of fun.)

[Hoist!]

After doing some looking and a bit of research, I found that the cams in the CVO's are one piece (SE 255's). The '07 96's have the three piece cams. So, eliminate that possibility....

Yes, I plan to replace the lifters. That would be called 'throwing parts at the problem' but what is the alternative? The dealers won't help. Square wheels on a Harley is "normal" to their 'technicians' (using the term very loosely). (I used to know a girl named Loosley, or was it Lucy, anyway she was a lot of fun.)

Go one step further. Rebuild the whole engine properly, with properly designed parts. And don't go to the dealer to fix it. After w.....ty's up, you're on your own anyway. Make believe that's NOW! Save that w.....ty crap for that expensive electronics, paint etc!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

I experienced a lot of valve train noise (ticking) between 1800 - 2000 rpms for the first 1500 miles. The level has diminished as I approached approx 3400 miles. I am doing a winter build on this motor which I hope will eliminate the problem all together. (110/117/124 cu in upgrade)

Soon I'll be posting my alternatives for the build to get input from CVOHarley members.

I feel your pain! It's damn frustrating!

JW

[grak]

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I am hopeful that all of our collective experience and wisdom may see a fix for this problem.  Although some valve noise is normal, the amount that I hear really muddies an otherwise wonder Harley experience.  Please post any sucesses you might have, I am willing to throw more money at this if that's what it takes.  I doubt Harley is comitted to make this right, unfortunately.
GWW