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[skreminegul07]

I suggested the gear drive due to the issues with the stock cam plate, but with the amount of crank issues as well. If your current crank has a good runout spec then run the chain drive. We have seen a handful of the cam plates with elongated holes. now that does not mean every one will do this. however from our stand point if i am aware of it, and fail to tell you , it would be my luck that yours would be one that goes south.

I was talking with Mike S from latus on the heads today. he know understand why we do it and how it can stop the leaking issue. he agress with the fix.  Many of the CVO owners are not willing to have a head on the bike that does not have the SE 110 logo. I am not a fan of the head in stock form but with work and reducing the port size with welding and then CNC work. You can get the velocity up and over come to some point the larger valve. Increase the compression and match a cam to the new compression along with the engine being a 110 and a correct cam you have a great running bike. With the head logo still on your scooter.

GMR, that was true until the logo became a screw on item.  That dimished its value. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

True true, I was spekaing more in general terms. But overall the head is not bad if you do the work, now the ACR is a nice item. I know there are some spotty issues here and there with it failing but I like really. Nice idea and the owner does not have to push any buttons in. Come to think if it these bikes are getting like cars with all the plush features LOL. next you will have wipers on the windsheild   

[happyman]

          Can  say what compression  TMan likes with the 590 cam?   also is the cam  quiet?? also where does this 590 cam pull from..   is it  low or midrange?? 
             Thanks                        Happy

B/D

Your choices seem to be good.

My choice was Tman

Tman for the Lowrider 126/121 with 15K miles on the motor after mods.

Tman for the Frontier 140/141 with 5K miles on the motor after mods.

Tman on the SERG, a mild build and just cleaning up the rest of what's there.

If you think he doesn't like the heads on a 110 don't ask him about a Marelli system on the pre Delphi bikes. OMG!


TR was having issues with his dyno but those have been worked out.
The 590 cam is an awesome cam in conjunction with his headwork.
Big #'s don't mean squat if it doesn't live. Check other builders, Tman's parts have a great rep!

If I lived close to Dennis I would buy Tman's parts and have him assemble.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.



S
  /
    B

 :2vrolijk_21:

[Black Diamond]

The compression would be set between 10.8:1 to 11:1. I have not heard the cam in person. However, my builders says it makes more noise than the 255. My #1 problem with this cam is it doesn't jump in until 2700 rpm or higher. It is much more a midrange cam than I wanted. TR (T-Man) recommended I try his 625. My builder has installed this cam but was not overly impressed with the results. The SE 255 delivers great at the bottom but then it drops like a rock. I am still looking for something more in the 2200 rpm to 5000 rpm range. May be too much to ask for at this time. I like the R&R 615 but it is available gear only.

Talked with Steve at GMR. He is looking into a couple of cam options for me. I am currently looking at his heads to fix the head gasket leak problems. They are also capable of generating the torque and power I want if I get the right cam. Power and torque #s made at the top end of the rpm range are great for a dyno sheet but useless to me. I want a reliable motor that delivers the power quickly in the rpm range I ride and need it in. IMO

JW

[happyman]

             Black Diamond,
I understand where your comming from on the cam choice. i want a cam also that can pull down low where we ride. its a new deal now with the  6 speed gearbox and the overall gearing. The 255 cam  will do much better with headwork   and make the touring  broupp very happy  because the it will pull  quite a bit more. also raise the tq and hp  to respectable.   not familar with the  R&R 615  but i don't think  the gear drive is necessay on the new cvo bikes and you can get lots of gear noise.  granted we don't have exact cam timing all the time but how many of us will it bother??   i keep looking at dyno runs and some are so far from reality it makes me laff  anyway  i am going to keep looking to see if something comes out that i can live with  i don't want to shifting all the time or changing the ratio  so i am willing to  look.. i have a  cam  instaleed now and heads am in the process of tuning and its at least going to have 120 ft lbs and its got plent  down low. i still think there can be more regardless.
                                 Happy
           

The compression would be set between 10.8:1 to 11:1. I have not heard the cam in person. However, my builders says it makes more noise than the 255. My #1 problem with this cam is it doesn't jump in until 2700 rpm or higher. It is much more a midrange cam than I wanted. TR (T-Man) recommended I try his 625. My builder has installed this cam but was not overly impressed with the results. The SE 255 delivers great at the bottom but then it drops like a rock. I am still looking for something more in the 2200 rpm to 5000 rpm range. May be too much to ask for at this time. I like the R&R 615 but it is available gear only.

Talked with Steve at GMR. He is looking into a couple of cam options for me. I am currently looking at his heads to fix the head gasket leak problems. They are also capable of generating the torque and power I want if I get the right cam. Power and torque #s made at the top end of the rpm range are great for a dyno sheet but useless to me. I want a reliable motor that delivers the power quickly in the rpm range I ride and need it in. IMO

JW

                       

[Hoist!]

Bear in mind, you shouldn't use those cams as a bolt-on. You should pull the heads too.The stock valve springs can't handle that kind of lift. Might as well do the headwork then too!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

Howie
As you (and many others) have said before.  Get a package from someone that's done em before. Do not try to do it yourself. I'm doing it as a package: heads, cam, tb, cam support plate, Timken bearings, Hoben Bros. crank, roller bearings, etc. I'm taking my time to get the info, talk with the guys that build em like Steve and Dennis, and make an informed decision.

happyman....I agree with you. I only worry I'll keep chasing the torque dragon.  I need to make a good street worth machine that is reliable then simply enjoy it. These motor builds can become an addiction. 

JW

[Hoist!]

Howie
As you (and many others) have said before.  Get a package from someone that's done em before. Do not try to do it yourself. I'm doing it as a package: heads, cam, tb, cam support plate, Timken bearings, Hoben Bros. crank, roller bearings, etc. I'm taking my time to get the info, talk with the guys that build em like Steve and Dennis, and make an informed decision.

happyman....I agree with you. I only worry I'll keep chasing the torque dragon.  I need to make a good street worth machine that is reliable then simply enjoy it. These motor builds can become an addition. 

JW

It's nice to see others understand that the MoCo isn't doing anything about the 110 issues for us, and are building REAL motors on their own for their '07/'08's. As I sit here and watch for the last 10 months or so, how many people have brought their bikes in over and over for the same issues, and not a damn thing gets done by, or surfaces from the MoCo! Same BS each time! And brand new bikes to this day, are still doing the same damn thing. With only 1500 miles on them! It makes you sick!

But realizing nothing's gonna change, and taking the cash out of your own pockets to make it right, seems like the only solution. We're not nuts for doing this. We love our bikes and are willing to go that far to get them right. So hang tough guys! You're gonna wind up with the best '07/'08 CVO's you thought you were buying in the first place. We'll show 'em all that this ain't rocket science! FTW!!!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

WELLLLL..................
We may not be nuts but I'm damn close to it. I just get a little irritated at myself for continuing to buy Harleys knowing they have these problems. At least I figured out the fix is not with the Moco that gave me the problem to begin with. I'm just glad to know there are folks with 110's that are not having problems....



You guys are out there........right?

[happyman]

WELLLLL..................
We may not be nuts but I'm damn close to it. I just get a little irritated at myself for continuing to buy Harleys knowing they have these problems. At least I figured out the fix is not with the Moco that gave me the problem to begin with. I'm just glad to know there are folks with 110's that are not having problems....



You guys are out there........right?

                 well i had a few miles less than 7800 on my 07 and it never had any isues cep the tach and  replace the saddlebags. the motor stayed together never leaked so i was fortunate i guess. but then i don't  pound the hell out of my  stuff either but if you want to run i will   go for it too.  it rarely happens so i just blow through the gears nmow and again to keep the tops of the pistons clean. whe  we pulle dit down it was unbelievable how clean the tops of the pistons were. have had 16 new harleys in my days and hoped them all up  at least once some   4 or 5 differant builds never had them that clean on top. anyway i have 96" heads with   manual  compression reliefs the  all new guides and springs    so i know  i am good to go.As i said the thing has 120 tq pretty quick  and its over 100 at  2500 so it will roll with the traffic and its fun.  will finish up next week the i have to wait for the ice and crap to leave the roads to get it  out and play  if it gets warm enough to   think about it i have taken it out to see how the tune was at various speeds and i can tell ya its is very very quick reving.. you need to be pointed in a straight line and have a clean surface or your gonna be in trouble in a new york second.  anyway its all in fun  .. i don't have a clue how to post a  dyno run here or if ya can but perhaps i can e-mail it to one of you so maybe you can post  it. it is not  the greats build but that was not wha ti was up too. i ride two up  and have some age so i built this to have tq but yet its gonna be ok hp wise also   i figure just under 110 hp   
                                                   Happy

[Black Diamond]

Well I've been talking with a lot of engine builders. It has been quite an education. I am now certain I don't no chit about motors!    While Tman makes outstanding stuff, I have decided not to use him as the low end torque comes on around 3000 rpm. I have decided against going to a 117/124 build. Would probably add to my problems, leaking rear head gasket at under 3700 miles. Finally, I decided there is no need for me to go to a gear drive cam with the new chain system based on all the builders I have talked to. So I am looking at two additional options:


Option 4: GMRPerformance 110 cu motor
GMR head work on 110 SE Heads w/ACR's
Stock 110 pistons
SE 251 cam
GMR clean up on stock 50mm TB or SE 58mm TB
SE Roller Rockers
SE Adjustable Pushrod
SE Rocker Arm Support
SE Cylinder Studs
Clearance Rocker Boxes & Cam Chest
Upgrade clutch springs
Chrome Billet Aluminum Covers (gotta have something chrome)

Note: Steve/GMR welds the heads up to fix the gasket leak issue. He also likes / recommends staying with the ACRs.


Option 5: Cycle Rama 110 cu motor
Cycle Rama (CR) head work on 110 SE Heads w/ACR's
Stock 110 pistons
CR 595 special grind cam - available in approx two weeks / kicks in around 2000 - 2200 rpm
CR head polished SE 58mm TB
SE Roller Rockers
SE Adjustable Pushrod
SE Rocker Arm Support
SE Cylinder Studs
Clearance Rocker Boxes & Cam Chest
Upgrade clutch springs
Chrome Billet Aluminum Covers (gotta have something chrome) 

Note: Wes really likes the stock heads after polish and clean up. He also likes the ACRs. They have written instructions on installation procedures that has stopped head gasket leaks to date. He recommends I leave the bottom alone unless I have a runout problem which I can address under warranty at that time.

Both Wes and Steve have been great to talk to and learn from. I do not think I can make a wrong decision here. A little more research, make the decision, and trailer the scoot to Gutterridge to get her done.

Oh ya, and paint up the hard bags and mount em.

JW

[skyhook]

did gmr recommend the se251 cams?

[sadunbar]

Well I've been talking with a lot of engine builders. It has been quite an education. I am now certain I don't no chit about motors!    While Tman makes outstanding stuff, I have decided not to use him as the low end torque comes on around 3000 rpm. I have decided against going to a 117/124 build. Would probably add to my problems, leaking rear head gasket at under 3700 miles. Finally, I decided there is no need for me to go to a gear drive cam with the new chain system based on all the builders I have talked to. So I am looking at two additional options:


Option 4: GMRPerformance 110 cu motor
GMR head work on 110 SE Heads w/ACR's
Stock 110 pistons
SE 251 cam
GMR clean up on stock 50mm TB or SE 58mm TB
SE Roller Rockers
SE Adjustable Pushrod
SE Rocker Arm Support
SE Cylinder Studs
Clearance Rocker Boxes & Cam Chest
Upgrade clutch springs
Chrome Billet Aluminum Covers (gotta have something chrome)

Note: Steve/GMR welds the heads up to fix the gasket leak issue. He also likes / recommends staying with the ACRs.


Option 5: Cycle Rama 110 cu motor
Cycle Rama (CR) head work on 110 SE Heads w/ACR's
Stock 110 pistons
CR 595 special grind cam - available in approx two weeks / kicks in around 2000 - 2200 rpm
CR head polished SE 58mm TB
SE Roller Rockers
SE Adjustable Pushrod
SE Rocker Arm Support
SE Cylinder Studs
Clearance Rocker Boxes & Cam Chest
Upgrade clutch springs
Chrome Billet Aluminum Covers (gotta have something chrome) 

Note: Wes really likes the stock heads after polish and clean up. He also likes the ACRs. They have written instructions on installation procedures that has stopped head gasket leaks to date. He recommends I leave the bottom alone unless I have a runout problem which I can address under warranty at that time.

Both Wes and Steve have been great to talk to and learn from. I do not think I can make a wrong decision here. A little more research, make the decision, and trailer the scoot to Gutterridge to get her done.

Oh ya, and paint up the hard bags and mount em.

JW

What compression ratio comes with options 4 and 5?

[SBB]

Well I've been talking with a lot of engine builders. It has been quite an education. I am now certain I don't no chit about motors!    While Tman makes outstanding stuff, I have decided not to use him as the low end torque comes on around 3000 rpm.

BD

You have chosen some very quality people to listen to and gain knowledge from. Any of the ones on your list know how to make horsepower. Your comment about Tmans low end torque not coming on till 3000 is not indicative of the motor parts he has supplied to me. My 120 makes 120 ft. lbs. of torque at 2000 rpm, 130 at 2500 and 140 at 3000.
That my friend is bottom end torque. Even Nancy's bike that's 95" produces over a 100 lbs. at 2500. Maybe the combo you selected didn't produce the bottom end you wanted but a general statement that his stuff doesn't produce low end torque is IMHO not accurate. We each have the opportunity to select who supplies and builds our rides and for yours I wish you luck with whoever you decide on.

SBB

[Black Diamond]

skyhook

Yes  Steve and I talked at lenght about possible cams. He recommended the 257 or 251 with the nod to the 251 for my riding style.


sadunbar
Option 4 GMR build 10:3 - 1
Option 5 Cycle Rama  9:5 to 10 - 1   Wes needs to work it out once new grind is complete. He will get back to me on it. Also thanks again for your help.


Silver-Black
These are the numbers supplied by TR on the package he helped set up. He told me he does not like the 110 heads on a 110. He thinks they work great on 120s and bigger. He could do better with other heads but not with the current ones. I am trying to keep the stock appearance. He was great to talk with and the man knows his stuff. In now way am I saying anything about TR or his products. He was very straight with me. If I build up my 95, he is on the list of those to call. I was not trying to make a general statement about Tman's stuff not making good low end torque. Sorry if it came across like that. I have seen Tman packages built at Gutterridge HD that are torque monsters.

JW