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[Ironhorse]

You'd think after three they'd trust you to send the old one back.... 

Yeah, you would think, I mean really, what could I do sell a defective ECM on E-bay? Open it up and "fix it".
But policy is policy, so there you have it.

[Twolanerider]

Yeah, you would think, I mean really, what could I do sell a defective ECM on E-bay? Open it up and "fix it".
But policy is policy, so there you have it.

Big on policy there.  Too bad one of them isn't "service with a smile" or "first time every time."

[Ironhorse]

did randy elabrorate on what is causing the failure? the marelli to delphi kit? or just 3 bad ecm's?

They have no idea on what the problem is, or if they do, they didn't say. I asked for an ECM swap based on the history and findings of other T-Max owners I heard from on other forums. One thing I found curious though, Randy was leaning toward having me replace my Speedometer, but when he spoke to Danny Fitz, he got the okay to do a swap. So maybe Danny knows of some issue we are not aware of. Replacing the Speedometer is a pain, because you have to take the bike in to a dealer and let them officially record the milage. Then they send the milage to HD so they can make a new speedo with the correct numbers on it. All of that process takes a heck of a long time. Plus, Speedos are not returnable, so if that is not the problem, I am out $300.00 and have a new speedo on my hands with entered mileage on it that will be difficult to sell on e-bay.

My bike is no longer Delphi, per Zippers recommendation I reconverted it back to Marelli and am running their M&M Conversion kit with the auto tune. This is one of the reasons I am very hesitant to buy an SERG. Having been through nothing short of Hell with my M&M system, I am having a hard time convincing myself to buy another one. Times like this make me want to sell my beloved bike which is sadly finally the way I want it to be. So that is why I am looking at other bikes like the SERG.

So my mind plays games. If I can resolve this issue, I will keep the bike. If I can't my choices are to sell it to a private party, or trade it in. Selling it to a private party is probably out of the question for me because the new owner will no doubtedly come back to me and ask about the speedo, and I can't lie to him and say "Gee, it's never done that before". If I trade it in, I will lose a couple 2-3K on the price. Or I could just leave it on a dealer floor on consignment and eat a couple more grand on the price.

[Hoist!]

I'm liking the idea of the carb conversion. Sounds so much simpler. Headpan and Puzzled both did it, and they're very happy with it.

Hoist!

[rednectum]

They have no idea on what the problem is, or if they do, they didn't say. I asked for an ECM swap based on the history and findings of other T-Max owners I heard from on other forums. One thing I found curious though, Randy was leaning toward having me replace my Speedometer, but when he spoke to Danny Fitz, he got the okay to do a swap. So maybe Danny knows of some issue we are not aware of. Replacing the Speedometer is a pain, because you have to take the bike in to a dealer and let them officially record the milage. Then they send the milage to HD so they can make a new speedo with the correct numbers on it. All of that process takes a heck of a long time. Plus, Speedos are not returnable, so if that is not the problem, I am out $300.00 and have a new speedo on my hands with entered mileage on it that will be difficult to sell on e-bay.

My bike is no longer Delphi, per Zippers recommendation I reconverted it back to Marelli and am running their M&M Conversion kit with the auto tune. This is one of the reasons I am very hesitant to buy an SERG. Having been through nothing short of Hell with my M&M system, I am having a hard time convincing myself to buy another one. Times like this make me want to sell my beloved bike which is sadly finally the way I want it to be. So that is why I am looking at other bikes like the SERG.

So my mind plays games. If I can resolve this issue, I will keep the bike. If I can't my choices are to sell it to a private party, or trade it in. Selling it to a private party is probably out of the question for me because the new owner will no doubtedly come back to me and ask about the speedo, and I can't lie to him and say "Gee, it's never done that before". If I trade it in, I will lose a couple 2-3K on the price. Or I could just leave it on a dealer floor on consignment and eat a couple more grand on the price.

please take no offense, but tinkeritis seems to be a part of the equation here?

[Ironhorse]

please take no offense, but tinkeritis seems to be a part of the equation here?

None taken, I started tinkering because I found myself running out of options.

The bike came with the 95" kit, .203 cams, SE intake, touring mufflers and the proper download. It ran fine for about 8 months, then started pinging. My local dealer told me I needed a Power Commander II to tune it, (the SERT for M&M was not available). So they installed one, and I got dyno tune number 1. The bike ran okay and got 25mpgs. The service guy told me that the mpgs were bad because timing was not adjustable, so all they could do was richen the afr to get rid of the ping. (Not sure if that was true about the PCII not being able to adjust timing) Then the PCII took a dump, so they pulled it and installed a TFI/DFO in its place. The bike ran a little bit better and the mpgs went up 1 or 2 miles per gallon. Then the ECM took went bad and that was replaced under emissions warranty. Then the bike started running poorly again, popping, spitting, missing, hesitating, every symptom possible. So they installed the new PCIIIr and there was dyno tune number 2. The bike ran okay, then went out of tune a few months later. I added one of those O2 sensor Terry Components gizmos, and that didn't seem to help much either. So I took it in for dyno tune number 3. Then the bike went out of tune a third time. By now the SERT for M&M was available, so I bought one of those. I pulled the PCIIIr and went with the SERT and dyno tune number 4. The tune was good, and mpgs were good, but at altitude the bike ran like crap. So now I have paid for FOUR Dyno Tunes and still do not have a decent running bike, are you with me so far?

So now Zippers enters the picture with their Delphi Conversion kit. So I bought one (ECM, throttle body and A/C) and found out it's really a Zippers version of M&M (That's Zippers ECM #1). It's not like HD Delphi at all. I worked with the Zippers guys trying to get it tuned. I contacted them so many times they stopped taking my calls, and responding to my e-mails and I became the equivilent of a Leper. They could not get a close base MAP, so they sent me to a shop for tune number 5. I was still getting 26mpgs. So I purchased a DTT O2 Sensor reader so I could ride, record, and tune in the blind, I got a little tired of paying for dyno tunes). I asked Zippers about their auto-tune set up but at that time it was only for the Delphi bikes. So I converted my bike to Delphi. I bought the Thayer harness, a Delphi Coil, bracket and had special brackets welded onto the bike to mount all this stuff. I bought the Zippers Delphi Thundermax ECM with auto-tune (That's ECM #2). The bike ran great, got excellent mpgs, but the turn signals did not work properly. I came to find out that this problem is specific only to the 2001 Ultras (Just my luck) I ran the bike for a year like this until Zippers finally came out with their M&M Conversion kit ECM that worked with auto-tune. Last August I reconverted my bike back to M&M and am now running their Zippers kit with auto tune (That's ECM #3). The bike runs great and gets mpgs in the mid 30s. Sometime shortly after installing the most recent Zippers ECM, the speedo started acting up. As I posted above, I did all the checks they asked, and I am now waiting for Zippers ECM #4.

So, do I tinker?  Well yes I do.

I also use my bike to teach, so having it sit in a shop for long periods of time while they tinker with it is not a favorable option. Having a bike that self tunes is a great, but it's the little stuff like turn-signals and speedo issues that are driving me to want to get rid of it by trade, or sale. The more I re-read my postings, the less I want to buy an SERG just because if the M&M FI.

Mark

[rednectum]

None taken, I started tinkering because I found myself running out of options.

The bike came with the 95" kit, .203 cams, SE intake, touring mufflers and the proper download. It ran fine for about 8 months, then started pinging. My local dealer told me I needed a Power Commander II to tune it, (the SERT for M&M was not available). So they installed one, and I got dyno tune number 1. The bike ran okay and got 25mpgs. The service guy told me that the mpgs were bad because timing was not adjustable, so all they could do was richen the afr to get rid of the ping. (Not sure if that was true about the PCII not being able to adjust timing) Then the PCII took a dump, so they pulled it and installed a TFI/DFO in its place. The bike ran a little bit better and the mpgs went up 1 or 2 miles per gallon. Then the ECM took went bad and that was replaced under emissions warranty. Then the bike started running poorly again, popping, spitting, missing, hesitating, every symptom possible. So they installed the new PCIIIr and there was dyno tune number 2. The bike ran okay, then went out of tune a few months later. I added one of those O2 sensor Terry Components gizmos, and that didn't seem to help much either. So I took it in for dyno tune number 3. Then the bike went out of tune a third time. By now the SERT for M&M was available, so I bought one of those. I pulled the PCIIIr and went with the SERT and dyno tune number 4. The tune was good, and mpgs were good, but at altitude the bike ran like crap. So now I have paid for FOUR Dyno Tunes and still do not have a decent running bike, are you with me so far?

So now Zippers enters the picture with their Delphi Conversion kit. So I bought one (ECM, throttle body and A/C) and found out it's really a Zippers version of M&M (That's Zippers ECM #1). It's not like HD Delphi at all. I worked with the Zippers guys trying to get it tuned. I contacted them so many times they stopped taking my calls, and responding to my e-mails and I became the equivilent of a Leper. They could not get a close base MAP, so they sent me to a shop for tune number 5. I was still getting 26mpgs. So I purchased a DTT O2 Sensor reader so I could ride, record, and tune in the blind, I got a little tired of paying for dyno tunes). I asked Zippers about their auto-tune set up but at that time it was only for the Delphi bikes. So I converted my bike to Delphi. I bought the Thayer harness, a Delphi Coil, bracket and had special brackets welded onto the bike to mount all this stuff. I bought the Zippers Delphi Thundermax ECM with auto-tune (That's ECM #2). The bike ran great, got excellent mpgs, but the turn signals did not work properly. I came to find out that this problem is specific only to the 2001 Ultras (Just my luck) I ran the bike for a year like this until Zippers finally came out with their M&M Conversion kit ECM that worked with auto-tune. Last August I reconverted my bike back to M&M and am now running their Zippers kit with auto tune (That's ECM #3). The bike runs great and gets mpgs in the mid 30s. Sometime shortly after installing the most recent Zippers ECM, the speedo started acting up. As I posted above, I did all the checks they asked, and I am now waiting for Zippers ECM #4.

So, do I tinker?  Well yes I do.

I also use my bike to teach, so having it sit in a shop for long periods of time while they tinker with it is not a favorable option. Having a bike that self tunes is a great, but it's the little stuff like turn-signals and speedo issues that are driving me to want to get rid of it by trade, or sale. The more I re-read my postings, the less I want to buy an SERG just because if the M&M FI.

Mark

if i read that correctly, as long as it was delphi, you had no problems? went back to marelli and problems developed AGAIN?

[Ironhorse]

if i read that correctly, as long as it was delphi, you had no problems? went back to marelli and problems developed AGAIN?

When it was First Generation Open Loop Marelli, the bike did not run well, (They could not get a close MAP) and the turn signals did not cancel. So I converted over the Delphi to use the Closed Loop Auto-Tune. When it was Delphi, the bike ran well with the Auto-Tune, but the Turn Signals still did not self cancel. Then Zippers came out with Second Generation Closed Loop Marelli with Auto-Tune and a special internal circuit board that allowed the turn signals to self-cancel. That's when I converted back to Marelli. Now the turn signals work, the bike runs well in closed loop, but the speedo is acting up.

So close, yet so far.

Mark

[rednectum]

When it was First Generation Open Loop Marelli, the bike did not run well, (They could not get a close MAP) and the turn signals did not cancel. So I converted over the Delphi to use the Closed Loop Auto-Tune. When it was Delphi, the bike ran well with the Auto-Tune, but the Turn Signals still did not self cancel. Then Zippers came out with Second Generation Closed Loop Marelli with Auto-Tune and a special internal circuit board that allowed the turn signals to self-cancel. That's when I converted back to Marelli. Now the turn signals work, the bike runs well in closed loop, but the speedo is acting up.

So close, yet so far.

Mark

gotcha! thanks for the info. the speedo runs through the vss. the vss signal is what the turn signals look to for self cancel. see a common factor here?

[Ironhorse]

gotcha! thanks for the info. the speedo runs through the vss. the vss signal is what the turn signals look to for self cancel. see a common factor here?

Last weekend I replaced the VSS and checked all the grounds.

[rednectum]

Last weekend I replaced the VSS and checked all the grounds.

well, looks like you had it covered all along. good luck and please let us know if the new ecm corrects the problem

thanks again.