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Author Topic: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?  (Read 2557 times)

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iski

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Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« on: January 08, 2008, 03:02:11 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/business/worldbusiness/12cars.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

NEW DELHI, Oct. 11 — A revolution is taking place in India that could change what most of the world drives.


Rush hour in New Delhi. Analysts expect more cars to join or replace the 65 million scooters on India’s roads, with new ultra-affordable cars leading the boom.

Next fall, the Indian automaker Tata Motors is scheduled to introduce its long-awaited People’s Car, with a sticker price of about $2,500. Hot on its tail may be as many as half a dozen new ultra-affordable vehicles — some from the world’s leading carmakers, including Toyota and Renault-Nissan.

With a median age of just under 25 and a rapidly expanding middle class, India will overtake China next year as the fastest-growing car market, according to estimates by CSM Worldwide, an auto industry forecasting service.

To tap that emerging market, automakers are starting to respond to Indians’ desire for small and cheap cars. As a result, car companies are coming up with new ways to develop and build automobiles worldwide.

“Ask one billion people, and 99 percent of them are going to say they want a car,” said Jagdish Khattar, managing director of Maruti Suzuki India, the country’s largest car manufacturer. “The problem is, How many can afford it?”

For a long time, only a few carmakers in India concerned themselves with that question. The small-car market in this country is dominated by Hyundai Motors India, Tata and Maruti Suzuki, which is a joint venture between Maruti of India and Suzuki of Japan. Maruti Suzuki has more than 50 percent of the car market, thanks to models already as low as 195,000 rupees (about $5,000).

Now, foreign carmakers are entering the competition, increasing pressure to make cheaper yet appealing cars. From June to September alone, Skoda, a subsidiary of Volkswagen, said it would start making and selling the Fabia, its small car, in India; Toyota’s chairman, Fujio Cho, said his company might introduce a new small car to India; Ford Motor executives said they were studying the situation; and Renault-Nissan announced it would set up an engineering and design center, adding to previous plans to build a plant in India.

Renault-Nissan — a car-building alliance between Renault of France and Nissan of Japan — has been talking with local scooter maker Bajaj Auto about building a cheap car that analysts say could cost as little as $3,000. Hyundai is adding a new small car model to its existing line and doubling its local production, and Honda is planning a small car tailored to the Indian market. On Thursday, Fiat stepped up a partnership with Tata, announcing a 50-50 joint venture to make cars, engines and transmissions in India for the domestic and overseas markets.

India differs from giant slow-growth and no-growth auto markets like the United States and Western Europe, and even from fast-growing markets like China, in that the emphasis is on small, low-cost cars — but with four doors, not two, and room for the extended family.

While the Indian upper classes are snapping up roomier models and even imports like Mercedes-Benz, first-time buyers will provide a big chunk of growth for years to come.

By 2013, CSM predicts, India’s market will expand an average of 14.5 percent a year, compared with just over 8 percent for China. CSM estimates that in 2013, the Chinese will buy 10.8 million cars, compared with 3.8 million in India, but says there is already a glut of local and foreign manufacturers in China, making India a more attractive long-term market.

If global manufacturers can figure out how to make small, cheap cars in India, they are expected to start exporting them to other fast-growing markets where the proportion of car ownership remains small — places like Southeast Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

But first they have to conquer this market. A. T. Kearney, an international management consulting firm, estimates that a car with a $3,000 list price could attract 300 million buyers in India by 2020. Of course, forecasters were bullish on China for decades before its growth finally took off. And economic upheaval or political change could stall India’s expected growth, too.

But the millions of Indians who will buy cars are likely to agree with Shuchita Bagga, who bought her first auto in July. “Budget was the most important thing,” said Ms. Bagga, 26, a trainee in human resources who earns about 375,000 rupees a year (about $9,500) and paid a little more than 235,000 rupees ($6,000) for it. “I’m not in a position to buy a big or an expensive car.”

In addition to new economy types like Ms. Bagga, car manufacturers are looking at India’s approximately 65 million scooter owners, mostly men. Currently, entire families commute on scooters, with the man of the house driving, his wife sitting side-saddle on the rear, and as many as three children wedged in between.

The People’s Car will create a situation where “someone who never even dreamed of a car finds it within reach,” said Ravi Kant, the managing director of Tata Motors. “Imagine what excitement there is.”

Environmentalists and safety advocates are less enthusiastic.

Anumita Roychowdhury, the associate director for the Center for Science and Environment in New Delhi, said the ultra-affordable vehicles would worsen India’s pollution and traffic congestion. Already, nearly 60 percent of India’s cities have pollution levels that are considered critical, she said.

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ccr

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 05:12:08 PM »

I waited to get home before reading this post.  Because of the subject line, was so afraid of what the web police would see. 

Not exactly what I was expecting.   :cherry:
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mr_magoo

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008, 05:43:35 PM »

Well that should get gas up 7 dollars a gallon!
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 06:00:24 PM »

Mike, TaTa is more than likely going to buy Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford, from the marketplace report I heard on NPR driving home the other evening.  Ford needs to get rid of the brands after reporting record losses, and losing ground to Toyota, and TaTa is a likely buyer.


Too many rats in the cage, man...I'm telling ya'.
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2008, 07:59:48 PM »

Well that should get gas up 7 dollars a gallon!

One of the main reasons oil prices have skyrocketed this past year is the huge increase in demand from China and India, two extremely populous countries which are just now awakening.  $100 per barrel now, wouldn't be surprised to see $150+ by this time next year.

As Terry has stated many times, too many people on this rock we call Earth, and now a huge number of them want to leave the dark ages and join us in the 21st century.  This is just the beginning folks, hang on to your ---!

Jerry
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2008, 09:06:43 PM »

Mike, TaTa is more than likely going to buy Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford, from the marketplace report I heard on NPR driving home the other evening.  Ford needs to get rid of the brands after reporting record losses, and losing ground to Toyota, and TaTa is a likely buyer.


Too many rats in the cage, man...I'm telling ya'.

TaTa has in fact been chosen by Ford, out of the 3 contenders, for further and more in-depth negotiations.  It's still hard to predict if and when an actual sale may take place, but Ford management wants to get this done early in 2008.  Analysts are predicting an approximate price tag in the $2B range.

This is a very sore subject with a lot of my fellow ex-employees who suffered through years of lack of investment in competitive products here in the US while our company executives spent billions on what some pundits have called the automotive equivalent of "trophy brides".  Ford spent $2.5B in 1989 to purchase Jaguar, even though all independent analysis indicated the company was worth less than $1.2B.  Since that time, more than $9.5B in additional funding has been pumped into the business even though it continues to bleed red ink.  Since management had such great success with that particular British institution, they decided back in 1999/2000 to acquire another underperforming British auto company for many times what the company was worth, again syphoning money from product development in the home market to purchase another "trophy bride".  This time it was $3B euro's up front, and I'm not sure how much since then.  Now they'll be lucky to get $2B for both companies combined.

While all of this has been going on, Ford has gone from being poised to overtake GM (mid to late 90's) to being overtaken itself by Toyota.  Most of this can be traced to lack of proper product development in North America, and I and many of my peers blame that on the amount of money that's been diverted over the years to buying these "trophy brides", along with Jacques Nasser's foray into European repair shops, recycling centers (junk yards), etc.  And don't get us started on Aston-Martin, another acquisition most likely due to a James Bond fan becoming a top executive, since there sure wasn't any compelling business case for that purchase.  I can't remember what Ford paid for that one, but it was recently sold to a group from Kuwait for $800M.

It's a sad situation for those of us who used to bleed Ford blue, watching this fire sale of company assets along with the mortgaging of the companies physical plants and trademarks.  It's also a warning to the shareholders and employees of other companies such as H-D, showing just how quickly the mighty can fall when p-poor management and ineffectual boards of directors are combined.

Jerry
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iski

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2008, 12:27:07 AM »

Mike, TaTa is more than likely going to buy Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford, from the marketplace report I heard on NPR driving home the other evening.  Ford needs to get rid of the brands after reporting record losses, and losing ground to Toyota, and TaTa is a likely buyer.


Too many rats in the cage, man...I'm telling ya'.

Ford is repositioning itself again - heard some of that NPR report on TaTa re: Jag & LR.  Ford & GM are looking at the new market leader - Toyota. Maybe someday Toyota will be looking up at TaTa?

The world looks at industrialization & the accompanying transportation benefits perceived & next thing ya know, they have more cars than roads & place enormous demands on certain resources (well beyond petroleum). Here in the USA we lament because our costs will more than likely increase.  To the guy used to walking or maybe riding his yak having a car to drive is just a part of his Indian dream.  Some mis-characterize it an American dream or even USA envy but its doubtful we will see $2500 TaTas anytime soon. 

It's a human Habitrail world bro, and somebody keeps moving the cheese.
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iski

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2008, 12:29:48 AM »

I waited to get home before reading this post.  Because of the subject line, was so afraid of what the web police would see. 

Not exactly what I was expecting.   :cherry:

Life is full of surprises, Mrs. We.  ;)


« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 01:05:22 AM by iski »
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Chief

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2008, 08:48:14 AM »

...but its doubtful we will see $2500 TaTas anytime soon. 

Yea, I hear a good set will run you 5 grand or more.  :D

:indian_chief:
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2008, 04:02:06 PM »

Well that should get gas up 7 dollars a gallon!

You can just about count on that...it'll easily be $4 by this time next year, if not higher.
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2008, 07:27:19 PM »

Yea, I hear a good set will run you 5 grand or more.  :D

:indian_chief:

 ;D ;D ;D

Outsourcing this to India could reduce the cost to $2,500 or maybe if mass produced $1,250 each.   :nixweiss:  Of course they would have to be sent over & then shipped back, so the freight could add to the cost.  :)
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 10:16:56 PM »

;D ;D ;D

Outsourcing this to India could reduce the cost to $2,500 or maybe if mass produced $1,250 each.   :nixweiss:  Of course they would have to be sent over & then shipped back, so the freight could add to the cost.  :)

If this is the case, I'll volunteer for QC.  ;D

:indian_chief:
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iski

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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2008, 10:28:46 PM »

If this is the case, I'll volunteer for QC.  ;D

:indian_chief:

Very noble of you.  Best be careful not to poke an eye out during the inspection process.   ;D
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2008, 09:45:58 AM »

Jeez, I was hoping this thread had degraded into something.... :-\
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Re: Riding Around With Cheap TaTas?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2008, 09:49:52 AM »

Jeez, I was hoping this thread had degraded into something.... :-\

Are you satisfied with our efforts?  ;D

:indian_chief:
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