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[Dan_Lockwood]

I just picked up my new '08 Touring manual along with the '08 SE supplement.  I picked up the electrical manual a couple months ago, so now I have all three.

Anyway, this weekend going through specifications etc, I came across the transmission ratios and they list them as: (Page 7-1)

First (low) --3.34
Second --2.31
Third -- 1.72
Fourth -- 1.39
Fifth -- 1.18
Sixth -- 1.00

Note...
Final gear ratios indicate the number of mainshaft revolutions required to drive the output sprocket one revolution.  (This is the note directly under the ratio table in the manual)

Now I thought that 6th gear was a .86 OD and that 5th was 1.00.

I know that final drive ratios are different due to the rear drive belt sprockets, but still, the trans is what give you an overdrive or no overdrive, so where am I going wrong?

So is the manual wrong or have I misunderstood the ratios all along??

[Chief]

I just picked up my new '08 Touring manual along with the '08 SE supplement.  I picked up the electrical manual a couple months ago, so now I have all three.

Anyway, this weekend going through specifications etc, I came across the transmission ratios and they list them as: (Page 7-1)

First (low) --3.34
Second --2.31
Third -- 1.72
Fourth -- 1.39
Fifth -- 1.18
Sixth -- 1.00

Note...
Final gear ratios indicate the number of mainshaft revolutions required to drive the output sprocket one revolution.  (This is the note directly under the ratio table in the manual)

Now I thought that 6th gear was a .86 OD and that 5th was 1.00.

I know that final drive ratios are different due to the rear drive belt sprockets, but still, the trans is what give you an overdrive or no overdrive, so where am I going wrong?

So is the manual wrong or have I misunderstood the ratios all along??

Dan,

The Screamin Eagle six speed was an overdrive transmission, but the Cruise Drive is a 6-speed with a 1:1 6th. A 1:1 is prefered over an overdrive due to being more efficient. The reduced overall ratio, 2.79:1 comes from different primary gearing. Before 2007, the compensator was 25 teeth and the clutch sprockket was 36 teeth. The rear sprocket was 70 teeth. Now, the compensator was bumped to 34 and the clutch sprocket was raised to 46. The rear wheel sprocket was also dropped to a 66 tooth sprocket.

I've attached a simple spreadsheet I did while I was looking at a change of the Cruise drive gearing which I don't like because 1st is just way too tall for me.

[grc]

I just picked up my new '08 Touring manual along with the '08 SE supplement.  I picked up the electrical manual a couple months ago, so now I have all three.

Anyway, this weekend going through specifications etc, I came across the transmission ratios and they list them as: (Page 7-1)

First (low) --3.34
Second --2.31
Third -- 1.72
Fourth -- 1.39
Fifth -- 1.18
Sixth -- 1.00

Note...
Final gear ratios indicate the number of mainshaft revolutions required to drive the output sprocket one revolution.  (This is the note directly under the ratio table in the manual)

Now I thought that 6th gear was a .86 OD and that 5th was 1.00.

I know that final drive ratios are different due to the rear drive belt sprockets, but still, the trans is what give you an overdrive or no overdrive, so where am I going wrong?

So is the manual wrong or have I misunderstood the ratios all along??

Dan,

The manual is correct.  With the Cruise Drive, H-D copied the idea used by Baker on the DirectDrive 6 transmission.  The transmission ratio in 6th is 1:1 (direct drive), and the overdrive effect comes from a change in the primary drive ratio.  I suppose if you want to get technical, the Cruise Drive is not an overdrive trans, since the input and output speeds are the same in 6th.  The important number, BTW, is the overall gear ratio (primary ratio X trans ratio X belt drive ratio), since that determines your engine speed versus road speed.  If you calculate the overall ratio with the numbers from your '08 and then compare it to the overall ratio on a '06 or earlier bike with the optional 6 speed OD trans, you will find that your overall ratio in top gear is nearly identical. 

Jerry

[HUBBARD]

Interesting............And now you've got me curious.  I installed the HD 6-speed gear set in Ol' Maudie's original 5-speed Case, when the 6-speed was first introduced to the market, as opposed to the complete 6-speed.  I was under the impression those ratios were identical in the first 5, and 6th was .78:1.  Is that correct, or is it .86:1?  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD

[Chief]

Interesting............And now you've got me curious.  I installed the HD 6-speed gear set in Ol' Maudie's original 5-speed Case, when the 6-speed was first introduced to the market, as opposed to the complete 6-speed.  I was under the impression those ratios were identical in the first 5, and 6th was .78:1.  Is that correct, or is it .86:1?  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD

Hubbard, this comes from the HD site

Screamin' Eagle® 6-Speed Transmission and Gear Set

Fully assembled and ready-to-install, this new 6-speed transmission has been designed from the ground up. Tested and validated to OE standards, it incorporates many of the best OE features, like late-style shifting mechanism and a newly designed "shift ring" system. The shift ring system is similar to that of the V-Rod® transmission, and it slides on the shafts to mate into the gears, resulting in smooth, precise and light effort shifting. The first five gears mimic today's proven five speed ratios. Sixth gear is a true overdrive at a .89:1 ratio, which allows the engine to run at a lower RPM in sixth gear, equating to less vibration and a longer engine life. No need to recalibrate electronic speedometer, and due to its compatibility with all H-D® exhaust systems, no exhaust mount modifications are necessary. Features forged chrome trap door and side covers, forged shifter forks, precisely ground gears and a laser etched Screamin' Eagle®/6 Speed logo on transmission side cover.

This information is from the write-up for the complete tranny, not just the gear set. The listing on the gear set only does not mention the ratios. I could be wrong, but my guess is that it's the same gears in all of their SE 6-speeds.

[ultrafxr]

Dan,

The Screamin Eagle six speed was an overdrive transmission, but the Cruise Drive is a 6-speed with a 1:1 6th. A 1:1 is prefered over an overdrive due to being more efficient. The reduced overall ratio, 2.79:1 comes from different primary gearing. Before 2007, the compensator was 25 teeth and the clutch sprockket was 36 teeth. The rear sprocket was 70 teeth. Now, the compensator was bumped to 34 and the clutch sprocket was raised to 46. The rear wheel sprocket was also dropped to a 66 tooth sprocket.

I've attached a simple spreadsheet I did while I was looking at a change of the Cruise drive gearing which I don't like because 1st is just way too tall for me.

That is the very first thing I noticed on my jester.  The bike has so much torque that it is not much of a problem unless I'm two-up pulling my Bushtec and starting out from an uphill stop.  Then I've really got to gas it.  But it is not so bad that I'm going to do any mods.

[Chief]

That is the very first thing I noticed on my jester.  The bike has so much torque that it is not much of a problem unless I'm two-up pulling my Bushtec and starting out from an uphill stop.  Then I've really got to gas it.  But it is not so bad that I'm going to do any mods.

If Baker made a gear set that would get me a good hole shot, put 5th back where it should be and remove the 5th gear 'buzzing' I can feel in my teeth, I'd be all over that thing like stink on chit. 

But, since they don't have anything, my only option, and one I have already exercised, is to install the butt ugly IDS pulley on the rear wheel. Too bad I didn't get to try it out before stating my winter rebuild project. I wonder how much it would cost to chrome that dinner plate sized hunk of black?

[megavolt17]

That is the very first thing I noticed on my jester.  The bike has so much torque that it is not much of a problem unless I'm two-up pulling my Bushtec and starting out from an uphill stop.  Then I've really got to gas it.  But it is not so bad that I'm going to do any mods.

If you think 1st is too high test drive a BMW.  It has much less torque and 1st is like starting off in 3rd on a HD.  It's hard not to stall with 1 up even on level ground.

One test drive and you will NEVER AGAIN think that 1st is geared too high!

[Chief]

If you think 1st is too high test drive a BMW.  It has much less torque and 1st is like starting off in 3rd on a HD.  It's hard not to stall with 1 up even on level ground.

One test drive and you will NEVER AGAIN think that 1st is geared too high!

MV,

Thanks for the info. Just one more reason NOT to own a bimmer. 

[ultrafxr]

If Baker made a gear set that would get me a good hole shot, put 5th back where it should be and remove the 5th gear 'buzzing' I can feel in my teeth, I'd be all over that thing like stink on chit. 

But, since they don't have anything, my only option, and one I have already exercised, is to install the butt ugly IDS pulley on the rear wheel. Too bad I didn't get to try it out before stating my winter rebuild project. I wonder how much it would cost to chrome that dinner plate sized hunk of black?

Well the tranny is one thing I have had no problem with.  Used Redline Heavy Shockproof after first 500 mile change and it shifts very well and I have no 5th gear whine/buzz.  Did do the IDS a right before No GA and really like how it works.  Agree it is butt ugly but heck you can't see it 'cause the saddlebags hide it pretty well.  Thought about getting it chromed but doubt I will.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Dan,

The Screamin Eagle six speed was an overdrive transmission, but the Cruise Drive is a 6-speed with a 1:1 6th. A 1:1 is preferred over an overdrive due to being more efficient. The reduced overall ratio, 2.79:1 comes from different primary gearing. Before 2007, the compensator was 25 teeth and the clutch sprocket was 36 teeth. The rear sprocket was 70 teeth. Now, the compensator was bumped to 34 and the clutch sprocket was raised to 46. The rear wheel sprocket was also dropped to a 66 tooth sprocket.

I've attached a simple spreadsheet I did while I was looking at a change of the Cruise drive gearing which I don't like because 1st is just way too tall for me.

Thanks to all on this, I understand.

On another thread a while back we were talking about the "high" 1st gear.  When I was in Hawaii last August I rented an Electraglide 96" with the 6spd.  I was riding double up and we had some VERY steep climbs with 180 degree turn backs that I felt could have been handled better if the 1st gear was a bit lower.  The new SERK shows the same type of "high" 1st gear but as someone else said, the extra torque of the 110" makes it better.

Anyway, back to the other thread.  It was brought up that someone is making a front motor sprocket a few teeth smaller and a shorter chain.  This still allows for the spring tensioner to keep working.  I think the front sprocket is a stock or modified V-Rod part without a compensator, just a solid bolt on.  I don't thing V-Rods have had compensators because they've always had the IDS rear cush sprocket type hub.

So changing the front motor sprocket a couple teeth would do the job and it would also lower the usable speed for 6th gear.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??

[Chief]

Thanks to all on this, I understand.

On another thread a while back we were talking about the "high" 1st gear.  When I was in Hawaii last August I rented an Electraglide 96" with the 6spd.  I was riding double up and we had some VERY steep climbs with 180 degree turn backs that I felt could have been handled better if the 1st gear was a bit lower.  The new SERK shows the same type of "high" 1st gear but as someone else said, the extra torque of the 110" makes it better.

Anyway, back to the other thread.  It was brought up that someone is making a front motor sprocket a few teeth smaller and a shorter chain.  This still allows for the spring tensioner to keep working.  I think the front sprocket is a stock or modified V-Rod part without a compensator, just a solid bolt on.  I don't thing V-Rods have had compensators because they've always had the IDS rear cush sprocket type hub.

So changing the front motor sprocket a couple teeth would do the job and it would also lower the usable speed for 6th gear.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??

Dan,

It looks like you've been doing your homework.

[grc]

Thanks to all on this, I understand.

On another thread a while back we were talking about the "high" 1st gear.  When I was in Hawaii last August I rented an Electraglide 96" with the 6spd.  I was riding double up and we had some VERY steep climbs with 180 degree turn backs that I felt could have been handled better if the 1st gear was a bit lower.  The new SERK shows the same type of "high" 1st gear but as someone else said, the extra torque of the 110" makes it better.

Anyway, back to the other thread.  It was brought up that someone is making a front motor sprocket a few teeth smaller and a shorter chain.  This still allows for the spring tensioner to keep working.  I think the front sprocket is a stock or modified V-Rod part without a compensator, just a solid bolt on.  I don't thing V-Rods have had compensators because they've always had the IDS rear cush sprocket type hub.

So changing the front motor sprocket a couple teeth would do the job and it would also lower the usable speed for 6th gear.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??

Dan,

Yup, changing either the primary or final drive ratios can get you the desired result.  At this point in time, however, I'm not aware of anyone selling a smaller crank sprocket that includes a compensator feature.  I can't help but believe that long term reliability will suffer if you eliminate the compensator, even with the IDS in place.  The comparison to the V-Rod isn't compelling, since the two engines have totally different power characteristics.  For example, the V-Rod doesn't get ridden at the low rpm's common with a Big Twin, and it's at those low speeds that the pounding is most intense (especially when folks nail the throttle while cruising at 1500 rpm).  I believe I would look at the available options for the trans output sprocket, and leave the compensator alone.

It's unfortunate that H-D didn't see fit to keep the lower first gear ratio from the old 5 speeds, at least for the Touring models.  A wide ratio gearbox, with a lower first gear, would be a much better solution than changing the primary or final drive ratio and thus losing the "overdrive" effect that was supposedly the purpose of the 6 speed.  I have to believe that the aftermarket will eventually come out with a better "fix", but it sure would be nice if the MoCo could get this stuff right so we don't have to immediately look to the aftermarket for "fixes".

Jerry

[mr_magoo]

Lots of poeple did the 6 speed and then changed the comp sprocket, can that be done on the 110's?  Haven't seen anyone talk about changing the gearing.  I perfered the SE 6 speed to the cruse drive.

[ultrafxr]

Dan,

Yup, changing either the primary or final drive ratios can get you the desired result.  At this point in time, however, I'm not aware of anyone selling a smaller crank sprocket that includes a compensator feature.  I can't help but believe that long term reliability will suffer if you eliminate the compensator, even with the IDS in place.  The comparison to the V-Rod isn't compelling, since the two engines have totally different power characteristics.  For example, the V-Rod doesn't get ridden at the low rpm's common with a Big Twin, and it's at those low speeds that the pounding is most intense (especially when folks nail the throttle while cruising at 1500 rpm).  I believe I would look at the available options for the trans output sprocket, and leave the compensator alone.

It's unfortunate that H-D didn't see fit to keep the lower first gear ratio from the old 5 speeds, at least for the Touring models.  A wide ratio gearbox, with a lower first gear, would be a much better solution than changing the primary or final drive ratio and thus losing the "overdrive" effect that was supposedly the purpose of the 6 speed.  I have to believe that the aftermarket will eventually come out with a better "fix", but it sure would be nice if the MoCo could get this stuff right so we don't have to immediately look to the aftermarket for "fixes".

Jerry

For sure.