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[short block charlie]

i talk to two dealer here no problem as of yet. talk to steve at aceand eights in cinnatia, he has had one. say that harley thinks its the gasket, and new gasket coming. the big problem, he stated they will not warranty problem as yet. how can this a customer problem? where in maintance schedule is there stated replace defective gasket that customer did not make on your dime. so i see there is problem . it kind of like having crazy uncle in the closet, that you do not want anybody to know about. i keep checking with my sorces on this
charlie

[Black Diamond]

Hey SBC

The MoCo is not openly telling their dealers about the cylinder problems. They will get some type of info (depending on the version of the day) on the cylinder problem when they call tech services. However, my dealer told me what they learned about the problem from the MoCo. They also recommend I not replace the bad cylinder with another cylinder made the exact same way. I've gone with Axtell's like Scott, Howie and others. Here's a link to one of the prior threads on this issue. http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=19280.0

The MoCo has approved the warranty work on my problem. I can't believe any dealer would not.

As for a new gasket, do they mean a new and improved gasket replacing the new gasket which already replaced the improved gasket which already replaced the replacement gasket??  It is not a gasket issue. It's the cylinders.

Best of luck with it.

JW

[Unbalanced]

SBC,

If there are linings that are moving, how could one in their "RIGHT" mind not replace it?   No matter how good a gasket you would ever put on their soon as it moves you have a repeat performance.   I am hoping the American Iron Expose on the topic helps blow the lid off this.   

Any additional info you can obtain would be great to hear about, Thanks.

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

The liners do not move - they cannot move in a Twin Cam like an Evo.  The liner and cylinder grow at different rates, and repeated heat cycles cause the liner to grow ever so slightly - it is then perceived as a moving liner.

[sadunbar]

The liners do not move - they cannot move in a Twin Cam like an Evo.  The liner and cylinder grow at different rates, and repeated heat cycles cause the liner to grow ever so slightly - it is then perceived as a moving liner.

hmmm...semantics, right?     

The liner used to be flush to the cylinder at the joint face - now the liner is no longer flush to the joint face - whether the liner moved due to expansion caused by heat growth or whether the liner moved due to slippage - it moved.  End result is the same - oil spewage where there should be none...   

I get your point - just giving you a hard time.   To those of us that have experienced the problem its just a detail...

[skreminegul07]

The liners do not move - they cannot move in a Twin Cam like an Evo.  The liner and cylinder grow at different rates, and repeated heat cycles cause the liner to grow ever so slightly - it is then perceived as a moving liner.

How can you be so sure?  I would think that the cylinders being aluminum expand at a different rate than the liner, so at these high temps (rear) the bond is loose and the liner moves.  How does steel grow? and not shrink?  Am I losing compression while gaining CC's?

I'd like to hear more.

[skyhook]

this "growth" theory has me thinking...once the cylinders are seasoned, could the prob be fixed by milling the liner flush?

[Hoist!]

this "growth" theory has me thinking...once the cylinders are seasoned, could the prob be fixed by milling the liner flush?

If you have to mill the cylinders, who needs HD!!! Why can't HD just make the cylinders properly like on on their other engine sizes, and like the aftermarket does?!!!

Hoist!

[skyhook]

yes, sir I agree...but it is what it is for those of us who already own one...don't trust moco to fix what they've screwed up, so I guess it's axtell cylinders unless something can be done to fix the stockers

[FNGw/08SERK]

If you have to mill the cylinders, who needs HD!!! Why can't HD just make the cylinders properly like on on their other engine sizes, and like the aftermarket does?!!!

Hoist!

Maybe when pigs fly?              

[Twolanerider]

this "growth" theory has me thinking...once the cylinders are seasoned, could the prob be fixed by milling the liner flush?

Growth?  Milling?  For some reason I just involuntarily crossed my legs and said "ouch."

[Hoist!]

yes, sir I agree...but it is what it is for those of us who already own one...don't trust moco to fix what they've screwed up, so I guess it's axtell cylinders unless something can be done to fix the stockers

Exactly my point. Been around HD's for too long to know their approach to owning up to their F ups! I knew right away that getting away from their POS parts is the only way to fix things. Wait for them and you wanna blow your brains out. All it takes is a little time, effort and MONEY on their part. Well, don't hold your breath waiting for HD, unless you like turning BLUE!

Dealing with them fixing an inherent design flaw, is like beating your head against the wall! It feels good when you stop!!!

Hoist!

That's right Howie! (Thanks for the pic iski!)

[Black Diamond]

The liners do not move - they cannot move in a Twin Cam like an Evo.  The liner and cylinder grow at different rates, and repeated heat cycles cause the liner to grow ever so slightly - it is then perceived as a moving liner.

Does this mean all 110 cylinders will suffer the same fate?

JW

[TORKER07]

If the liners are growing and shrinking after heating and cooling cycles, why wouldn't HD pre heat treat these things before final machining process? Just a thought!

I had my rear cyl replaced just as winter was upon us, got it back home a week before Christmas.

Just waitin for riding season again to start the heating and cooling cycles again.

Tork

[sadunbar]

If the liners are growing and shrinking after heating and cooling cycles, why wouldn't HD pre heat treat these things before final machining process? Just a thought!

I had my rear cyl replaced just as winter was upon us, got it back home a week before Christmas.

Just waitin for riding season again to start the heating and cooling cycles again.

Tork

Aluminum and cast iron have different expansion rates and always will.  They don't expand and contract at different rates as they are "seasoned".  You cannot "pre heat" the two materials to achieve different expansion rates.  What is important is the design that "locks" the liner to the cylinder.  The design of how the liners are installed into the cylinders has to maintain the integrity of the bore geometry and joint face geometry in spite of the differing expansion rates.