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[novazeus]

From what I read in AI this month, when they change the air filter to a twin filter S&S and changed the muffler (on a '07 with 02 sensors) they said the ECM would recalibrate on its own to the proper AF ratios like the factory had set it.

Does this mean I could change to a SE foward facing exposed air filter and BUB7 true dual exhausts on my FLHRSE4 and not have to buy a Fuelpak or SERT or pay for dyno time if I was satisfied with the way the factory tuned the motor because of the 02 sensors in the exhaust it would reset itself after 15 minutes?

[Hoist!]

From what I read in AI this month, when they change the air filter to a twin filter S&S and changed the muffler (on a '07 with 02 sensors) they said the ECM would recalibrate on its own to the proper AF ratios like the factory had set it.

Does this mean I could change to a SE foward facing exposed air filter and BUB7 true dual exhausts on my FLHRSE4 and not have to buy a Fuelpak or SERT or pay for dyno time if I was satisfied with the way the factory tuned the motor because of the 02 sensors in the exhaust it would reset itself after 15 minutes?

Whomever said it is full of crap! The stock motor is already setup too lean. Why would you think it'll run any richer or better after opening it up. If I was running bone stock motor, I'd get a SERT or PC, let alone a stage 1 or 2 upgrade!

Hoist!

[novazeus]

They have a baseline dyno showing a 10hp and 6lb. torque increase just changing a '07 road glide to that dual foward facing open S&S extremely expensive air cleaner.

[Hoist!]

They have a baseline dyno showing a 10hp and 6lb. torque increase just changing a '07 road glide to that dual foward facing open S&S extremely expensive air cleaner.

No doubt in my mind. I love that AC. I've done a lot of testing with it. Nothing beats it on up to a 58mm TB. I changed it because it doesn't work as well with my 62mm TB. But that doesn't negate the fact that you need to get the AFR and timing right on these motors, regardless of any performance increase you see with any mod. These stock motors are just too damn lean. PERIOD!!!

Hoist!

[novazeus]

Not to argue whether or not the factory settings are too lean or not (and not knowing or be able to really tell) I would agree that it probably is too lean because of the way motorcycle manufacturers set bikes from the factory to satisfy the govt. but if I was ok with the leaness could I modify my intake and exhaust and the bike would reset tiself to its factory leaness?

[Hoist!]

Not to argue whether or not the factory settings are too lean or not (and not knowing or be able to really tell) I would agree that it probably is too lean because of the way motorcycle manufacturers set bikes from the factory to satisfy the govt. but if I was ok with the leaness could I modify my intake and exhaust and the bike would reset tiself to its factory leaness?

Maybe, maybe not. It will adjust within its range. Since it's too lean to start, how much room does it have to maintain that AFR? Who knows. HD will never answer that question. And I already know it needs a retuning device anyway. If you're happy with the heat and detonation now, by all means try it. what's the worst that can happen? A hole in the piston with a voided W.....ty! Go for it!

Hoist!

[novazeus]

Would the S&S work well with my stock FLHRSE4 tb?

Where is the best place to buy one?

[novazeus]

I don't have detonation now.

[Hoist!]

Would the S&S work well with my stock FLHRSE4 tb?

Where is the best place to buy one?

Like I said, that A/C is awesome. I'm not familiar with '08 application, since the '08's have been changed. Check with S&S for application compatibility. Then just about every aftermarket shop out there deals with S&S. Getting one is easy. Make sure it works first though.

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

I don't have detonation now.

Then I'd leave it alone before opening it up without a tuning device!

Nuthin' for nuthin' in this world bro!

Hoist!

[sportygordy]

I think he is saying, if you upgrade the intake and exhaust and modify the ECM on 07's and 08's the ECM will reset itself (after a cycle of readings from the factory exhaust sniffers) to stock AFR. If this is what he is saying, then i disagree. I am using the Daytona Twin Tech and WEGO II and have never seen the AFR's go back to factory settings. Even though i am using wide band sniffers, it shouldn't matter, the ECM would still try to reset to factory (if what he say's is correct). I can guarantee this does not happen.  At least I haven't detected it after several thousand miles.

[novazeus]

Here is what the article says:
"Once the S&S system was installed, Jay ran the bike on the dyno for around 15 minutes to allow the stock ECM to readjust to the new airflow levels. Then we did some power runs, taking the best one once the readings stabilized. As you can see in Dyno Chart 1, we gained over 10hp and 6-ft. lbs. of torque with this simple bolt on, and you can easily do the same in an hour or two. No EFI adjustments were made by Jay; the stock ECM was able to adjust itself to the new induction system while still keeping inside EPA regulations." AI April '08 S&S Quick Set Up Kit article.

[RedDevil]

I'm not sure how much difference there is between the 07 and 08 ECM as far as AFR adjustments are concerned.  The key thing to remember is the stock O2 sensors are narrowband and have a very limited range of adjustment beyond the factory (read EPA approved) Air to Fuel ratio.  When you open up the breathing via less-restrictive air cleaner and mufflers, you Air to fuel ratio is going to be higher, which means you're bike is going to run even leaner than what it's adjusted to as factory stock.  By putting a SERT, PC, Fuel Pak on you are changing or by-passing the fuel tables in the ECM to bring the bike down to an acceptable AFR again.  You want to be in the 13's on your AFR.  The the stock ECM will not allow you to get there without a SERT or another device to by-pass the ECM.  I'm pretty sure they didn't go to wideband sensors on the 08's.

   

[Talon]

I agree with Howie. Even though you have no detonation yet, it's winter, wait until you get into the summer when you temp is 90-100, you might see some detonation then. But I'd bet you motor is running warmer than the already hot temps of the stock bikes. You may see bluing or discoloration on you exhaust for higher temps if you really run the bike lean like that.

[Chief]

Here is what the article says:
"Once the S&S system was installed, Jay ran the bike on the dyno for around 15 minutes to allow the stock ECM to readjust to the new airflow levels. Then we did some power runs, taking the best one once the readings stabilized. As you can see in Dyno Chart 1, we gained over 10hp and 6-ft. lbs. of torque with this simple bolt on, and you can easily do the same in an hour or two. No EFI adjustments were made by Jay; the stock ECM was able to adjust itself to the new induction system while still keeping inside EPA regulations." AI April '08 S&S Quick Set Up Kit article.

Regardless of what they did at the shop, and I won't be taking my bike there, the stock ECM does not 'learn' anything.

The ECM does use O2 sensors, but they are there only to answer a question when the ECM asks "Can I go leaner". Those O2 sensors either say 'Yes' or 'No'. They never get asked "Hey! How are we doing? Do you need anything?" All they ever hear is the stingy ECM asking "Can I go leaner?".

If the bike is running leaner because the intake is now allowing more air into the motor, when the ECM asks "Can I go leaner?" the O2 sensor responds 'No'. That's it. The O2 sensor never gets a change to say "Dude!!! What the F&@% are you doing?!?!?! I'm burning up over here. How about some more fuel?" The only communication from the ECM is "Can I go leaner?"