Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SPIDERMAN]

BB

FYI
As much as the economy has sucked for the last few months and with all the cutbacks I was able to keep my version of the "Redneck Lucca Brassi" on the payroll. He sure does come in handy. And he's great with the Mexicans!

 

I'd of loved that job in my heyday 

B B

[RJ749]

Maybe this is along the lines of the way consumer advocacy is headed.

Customer backlash against bad service

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23283402

[Keats]

I don't know how it all works either, B B, but I do know I've always been able to buy my cars for just slightly over invoice...I know they get hold backs, etc, so they still make money.  My last car was $88 over invoice.

I don't know how the bike dealerships work, but I KNOW I can go into any other bike dealership, other than a HD, and get a bike for UNDER MSRP.  If they can do it and stay in business, why the hell can't the HD dealers?  I'm not a business man, but I'd rather sell 5 bikes a month for 1 or 2K under than 1 at MSRP.  I guess some of these guys have made so much money over the past 15 years or so, they aren't worried about it, but dipping into reserves to meet payroll is not my idea of good business management.

There's no reason in this world why a HD should cost what it does, other than they have known for years that people will pay it.  Those days are ending, IMO.

believe me if you ran an auto dealership and they only gave a limited amount of cars you would maximize your profit on each one....
The auto industry runs with profit centers in the back and used car lots. There is very little profit made on the front end because the market will not support it.  The Dealers have access to unlimited amount of cars  and they make 2% - 3% on the back end.  Try running a business on that margin, cannot be done unless other profit centers are going strong.   They only time the dealers can make their money when demand outstrips supply
special cars or high demand units.
look at Honda Goldwings they have an unlimited supply and cannot give away a $22,000.00 motorcycle for $19,000.00 (which is below normal dealer cost)
only recently has the Harley supply exceeded demand and the market is changing because of that.

Dealers are having to come to grips with the possibility of losing a major profit center because of supply exceeding demand. Factory has been forced to give dealers incentives which seldom has happened in the past. Dealers Make 13% -19% on bikes and this is major money for them. Harley has no back money or VR rebates.
much more money in Harley motorcycles sales than Chevrolet Auto sales. BMW you can make money on

The bottom line it is a open market and if you want stabilize retail pricing you have to under shoot demand. 

[SPIDERMAN]

believe me if you ran an auto dealership and they only gave a limited amount of cars you would maximize your profit on each one....
The auto industry runs with profit centers in the back and used car lots. There is very little profit made on the front end because the market will not support it.  The Dealers have access to unlimited amount of cars  and they make 2% - 3% on the back end.  Try running a business on that margin, cannot be done unless other profit centers are going strong.   They only time the dealers can make their money when demand outstrips supply
special cars or high demand units.
look at Honda Goldwings they have an unlimited supply and cannot give away a $22,000.00 motorcycle for $19,000.00 (which is below normal dealer cost)
only recently has the Harley supply exceeded demand and the market is changing because of that.

Dealers are having to come to grips with the possibility of losing a major profit center because of supply exceeding demand. Factory has been forced to give dealers incentives which seldom has happened in the past. Dealers Make 13% -19% on bikes and this is major money for them. Harley has no back money or VR rebates.
much more money in Harley motorcycles sales than Chevrolet Auto sales. BMW you can make money on

The bottom line it is a open market and if you want stabilize retail pricing you have to under shoot demand. 

 H-D Dealers could sell bikes at cost and still make a profit on parts, accessories, motorclothes and service. Why do you suppose all these dealers are cutting their discount programs on P&A ?  Because that's where the money is and since they aren't selling motorcycles, they've got to pick up the slack somewhere.And that's what irks me the most - - - - They won't give me a deal on a new motorcycle and they won't give me a deal (like they did for 9 years) on P&A. Eff em - - - - in the neck as Beagle would say.

[Keats]

H-D Dealers could sell bikes at cost and still make a profit on parts, accessories, motorclothes and service. Why do you suppose all these dealers are cutting their discount programs on P&A ?  Because that's where the money is and since they aren't selling motorcycles, they've got to pick up the slack somewhere.And that's what irks me the most - - - - They won't give me a deal on a new motorcycle and they won't give me a deal (like they did for 9 years) on P&A. Eff em - - - - in the neck as Beagle would say.

You could not be more wrong......yes they make  35% - 45% on parts and clothing but look at the labor it takes to sell $20,000 worth and that is just 1 bike.

If They lost bike revenue for any extended period time there would be bankruptcies all over the dealer network, they cannot survive on parts, service and

clothing sales to pull the entire wagon

Trust me I know how this works.

[iski]

You could not be more wrong......yes they make  35% - 45% on parts and clothing but look at the labor it takes to sell $20,000 worth and that is just 1 bike.

If They lost bike revenue for any extended period time there would be bankruptcies all over the dealer network, they cannot survive on parts, service and

clothing sales to pull the entire wagon

Trust me I know how this works.

How shocking!  A company is in business to make a ......... a.......... profit?  How evil!       

And they try to make a..... a....... a...... profit in ALL departments?  For shame!!!!!             


 

[MUFFMAN]

I know a lot of guys, myself included and probably most of the group here that started out on the jap bikes, some going as far as a Gold Wing before they switch over to a Harley. MOST never switch back. And that what the MoCo banks on. I'm pretty passionate about my bikes & its funny..... I've got two pretty neat cars in the garage which a lot of people would give their left nut to own & drive but I could care less about them. My wife drives them & takes them to the dealer for service etc. I just can't be bothered.My vehicle of choice in the winter is my Duramax 4X4 & in the summer when I am not at work is the HD. I've been driving HD's for over 15 years and its almost like being in a cult. I'll spend 3 g's on chrome & then whine about paying $150.00 for service on the car. Go figure.

[Smiler]

H-D Dealers could sell bikes at cost and still make a profit on parts, accessories, motorclothes and service. Why do you suppose all these dealers are cutting their discount programs on P&A ?  Because that's where the money is and since they aren't selling motorcycles, they've got to pick up the slack somewhere.And that's what irks me the most - - - - They won't give me a deal on a new motorcycle and they won't give me a deal (like they did for 9 years) on P&A. Eff em - - - - in the neck as Beagle would say.

Why would they want to when the market continues to spend

[SPIDERMAN]

Why would they want to when the market continues to spend

That's the whole point dude, the market ISN'T spending. That's whatwe'retalkinbouthere Willis. The fact that sales are way off and still they seem bent on driving away customers.

B B

[Keats]

Most seasoned dealers have learned not to panic at every little slow down (it disrupts the sales strategy to much)  So the smart dealer will wait out

short slow periods.   Another thing that is most important is how slow is it compared to same time period last year. The point being no matter how seasoned

you are, making marketing changes on how slow you perceive sales, the ultimate proof is the numbers (which we are not privy).  I cannot tell you how many

times I have felt that we hit huge slowdowns only for the numbers to disprove it.  Dealers will make adjustments once they are convinced that a new trend

is emerging and they are missing the boat.  I would not expect that a dealer would make a trend out of a couple of bike sales, but as the number increases

there eyes will open.

Yes some of the parts discount programs are being either eliminated and or modified to make up the profit lost on fewer bike sales.

those profits have already been spent in the budget and they need them or they in up in the red!

[iski]

So dealers, as business folks, must make money.  Contrary to a popular opinion that they exist for other purposes.

Instead of thinking they exist only for the whims of certain folks expectations like selling their bikes, products, & merchandise below cost, & going into bankruptcy court smiling since after all, their customers were happy, they must make money to stay in business.   Such a strange concept. 

As in the car biz & other business, demand & supply create profitable or less profitable sales & H/D dealers are tuned into that as well.  At least the ones with biz savvy are.  I tend to do biz with the best I can find & price alone is not THE deciding factor on who is "best."

[RJ749]

So dealers, as business folks, must make money.  Contrary to a popular opinion that they exist for other purposes.

Instead of thinking they exist only for the whims of certain folks expectations like selling their bikes, products, & merchandise below cost, & going into bankruptcy court smiling since after all, their customers were happy, they must make money to stay in business.   Such a strange concept. 

As in the car biz & other business, demand & supply create profitable or less profitable sales & H/D dealers are tuned into that as well.  At least the ones with biz savvy are.  I tend to do biz with the best I can find & price alone is not THE deciding factor on who is "best."

Could you move to Bellingham and be a ful time customer trainer?

I'm a lay down on this stuff usually, simply dealing as you do with the folks I like the best with the best expectation of good service.

I guess that's why I work locally with a dealer that gives me 10% in stead of someone in another state that doesn't support local rides, school taxes, my community or me.

[SPIDERMAN]

Could you move to Bellingham and be a ful time customer trainer?

I'm a lay down on this stuff usually, simply dealing as you do with the folks I like the best with the best expectation of good service.

I guess that's why I work locally with a dealer that gives me 10% in stead of someone in another state that doesn't support local rides, school taxes, my community or me.

If you look back over a couple years worth of posts between me and Beagle you'll see I supported SD H-D even when my best friend was publicly dissing me for doing so. I never did business with anyone solely on price. Were that the case, I'd be Chicago H-D's #1 customer. But when each and every single intangible (as well as tangible) in the equation goes out the window. When you speak to the owner personally and offer your opinion that his new business model while profit driven is not customer friendly. When you continue to be a customer even after a shop tech steals from you and doesn't get fired (although he was proven to have stolen) Then you've given enough. You've been a good customer to the point of being a sucker. And while I'm a loyal friend to anyone who treats me by the Golden Rule, I am nobody's sucker.

Well maybe I am because I still love Harley-Davidson motorcycles, I'm simply fed up with the human garbage they've allowed to take over large segments of their sales locations.

B B

[RJ749]

If you look back over a couple years worth of posts between me and Beagle you'll see I supported SD H-D even when my best friend was publicly dissing me for doing so. I never did business with anyone solely on price. Were that the case, I'd be Chicago H-D's #1 customer. But when each and every single intangible (as well as tangible) in the equation goes out the window. When you speak to the owner personally and offer your opinion that his new business model while profit driven is not customer friendly. When you continue to be a customer even after a shop tech steals from you and doesn't get fired (although he was proven to have stolen) Then you've given enough. You've been a good customer to the point of being a sucker. And while I'm a loyal friend to anyone who treats me by the Golden Rule, I am nobody's sucker.

Well maybe I am because I still love Harley-Davidson motorcycles, I'm simply fed up with the human garbage they've allowed to take over large segments of their sales locations.

B B

I totally agree B B, supporting a business that does not meet your needs as a customer is certainly not what I propose or practice personally.

However, your and others decision to support a business that "does" provide a level of service and customer experience that you appreciate is refreshing and appreciated by business as well.  Without customers no business can/will survive.

The part about having iski come to B'ham was on that point:

I tend to do biz with the best I can find & price alone is not THE deciding factor on who is "best."

[CVOJOE]

There is no doubt a real disconnect between what the MOCO, and or dealerships promise, and what we as the loyal, and sometimes obsessive, customers percieve as what we actually get. One fundamental issue that the MOCO, or dealership or any business for that matter (them), is really only in business because there are customers (us).

Sadly, in far too many cases it's a "us & them" situation and the customer is just anothe necessary statistic. I must say I have had some experiences where businesses did try and right any wrong, as much as they could, but it's so much reactive customer service 'repairs' these days, not a proactive customer satisfaction policy.