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[lilbear]

Actually, Spike is on the right track. The PC does nothing to the ECM and doesn't even know what's going on inside. Nor does it care. It works just like a voice disguiser a radio station might use to hide caller's identity. The voice disguiser is a downstream box that is fed one signal and send out another.

The caller (ECM) speaks into the voice disguiser (Power Commander) and we (fuel injectors) hear a different voice. The caller's actual voice is not altered just like the map in the ECM is not altered.

Chuck,

Kind of like an "Injector Whisperer", huh?

[SBB]

Actually, Spike is on the right track. The PC does nothing to the ECM and doesn't even know what's going on inside. Nor does it care. It works just like a voice disguiser a radio station might use to hide caller's identity. The voice disguiser is a downstream box that is fed one signal and send out another.

The caller (ECM) speaks into the voice disguiser (Power Commander) and we (fuel injectors) hear a different voice. The caller's actual voice is not altered just like the map in the ECM is not altered.

Exactly!

 

[Hoist!]

"It doesn't bypass it Spike, it fools it."

Exactly! But if you guys like to hear yourselves talk, go right ahead, and make sure it's reworded to your satisfaction!

Hoist!

[110tHunDer]

Actually, Spike is on the right track. The PC does nothing to the ECM and doesn't even know what's going on inside. Nor does it care. It works just like a voice disguiser a radio station might use to hide caller's identity. The voice disguiser is a downstream box that is fed one signal and send out another.

The caller (ECM) speaks into the voice disguiser (Power Commander) and we (fuel injectors) hear a different voice. The caller's actual voice is not altered just like the map in the ECM is not altered.

Exactly!

 

I don't think that's quite right is it?  My understanding is the PC modifies whatever map is in the ECM.  If the PC didn't care what was going on inside the ECM, Howie could plug the PC back in as-is and be done.

[miker]

The inputs are mathmatically "slewed" with "gain, bias and proportional integral derivitives(pid)" to achieve the desired setpoint, if we are to be persnickedy, which I am only when it comes to cigars, beer and bourbon....  

Still better than bypass or piggy backed device the "Gin n Gout"...garbage in , garbage out.  Thats where one gets thier "signals crossed" comes from we used to say back at the skunkworks...

Never mind, I have been in process control too long to gas...  

Lets see what us 09 beta testers will have to deal with...tts, super sert?  

[Fired00d]

The inputs are mathmatically "slewed" with "gain, bias and proportional integral derivitives(pid)" to achieve the desired setpoint, if we are to be persnickedy, which I am only when it comes to cigars, beer and bourbon....  

Still better than bypass or piggy backed device the "Gin n Gout"...garbage in , garbage out.  Thats where one gets thier "signals crossed" comes from we used to say back at the skunkworks...

Never mind, I have been in process control too long to gas...  

Lets see what us 09 beta testers will have to deal with...tts, super sert?  

Man I had a post all written out as to how I thought this system (PC/ECM) worked and when I hit post it said another post was made in the interim. I read this post and I'm now more confused then before.

Ok, how does the ECM and PC work? Does signal (data) come from ECM and PC modifies it, or PC sends a signal (data) to the ECM and then it goes downstream (injectors/timing/etc)?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[110tHunDer]

 
I think some of that beer and bourbon may have come into play in the above post.

[Fired00d]

I think some of that beer and bourbon may have come into play in the above post.

Maybe we need some beer and bourbon (Modelo's and Chicken Wine) to understand Miker's post.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Hoist!]

I don't think that's quite right is it?  My understanding is the PC modifies whatever map is in the ECM.  If the PC didn't care what was going on inside the ECM, Howie could plug the PC back in as-is and be done.

Actually, there's more to it. When you piggybsack the PC off the ECM, it fools the system into thinking the ECM is making the decisions. But the PC is actually fooling it to do what you program it to do, based on the dyno tune custom map you've created for it. So whan you setup the PC, it's setup based on the parameters of the ECM. Since I've modified the parameters of the ECM with the SERT, I'll have to get it redyno'd with the PC if I want to put it back on. The map in the PC is incorrect now, because mine's based on fooling a stock ECM.

Hoist!

[110tHunDer]

Actually, there's more to it. When you piggybsack the PC off the ECM, it fools the system into thinking the ECM is making the decisions. But the PC is actually fooling it to do what you program it to do, based on the dyno tune custom map you've created for it. So whan you setup the PC, it's setup based on the parameters of the ECM. Since I've modified the parameters of the ECM with the SERT, I'll have to get it redyno'd with the PC if I want to put it back on. The map in the PC is incorrect now, because mine's based on fooling a stock ECM.

Hoist!

Exactly!

 

[SBB]

Exactly!

 

Sure wish Springer, Rednectum could give us a correct answer to this question.
No offense to Chief, and I understood his analogy and it makes sense but there seems to be many other arm chair quarterbacks that know a lot more about the relationship between a ECM and a PC.
I know about it but I also wonder if I'm correct in my understanding of the marriage of the two!

 

[Hoist!]

Sure wish Springer, Rednectum could give us a correct answer to this question.
No offense to Chief, and I understood his analogy and it makes sense but there seems to be many other arm chair quarterbacks that know a lot more about the relationship between a ECM and a PC.
I know about it but I also wonder if I'm correct in my understanding of the marriage of the two!

 

Then I guess your "Exactly" doesn't seem to apply whatsoever, since ya don't sem to know for sure!

I DO know the PC needs to be remapped because the ECM was modified with the SERT, and the map in my PC was created with the stock ECM!

You guys figure out how in English you all want it to sound about how it works. I already know what I have to do. But enjoy being rocket scientists and lemme know when ya got it figured out!!!

Hoist!

[110tHunDer]

Sure wish Springer, Rednectum could give us a correct answer to this question.
No offense to Chief, and I understood his analogy and it makes sense but there seems to be many other arm chair quarterbacks that know a lot more about the relationship between a ECM and a PC.
I know about it but I also wonder if I'm correct in my understanding of the marriage of the two!

 

   "Exactly!  Well, er, uh, maybe?" 

What's that you were saying about "arm chair quarterbacks?"

[SBB]

Since you asked?
No rocket scientist here.
Just another arm chair quarterback that not really sure how it works.
Just wondering who can tell us how the addition of a PC to a Harley ECM affects how a signal get to the injectors and or the timing?

1) Does the PC changes the messages the ECM gets to reflect the map in the PC?

OR

2) Does the ECM send the message to the PC which changes the message to reflect the map loaded in the PC?
************************************************************************************

The bike runs well, but could be better. My mileage is definitely better, bike seems more responsive, but it doesn't seem to make the top end it used to. Almost feels 'DEtuned".

What happened to the great tune by Springer?

 

[SBB]

  "Exactly!  Well, er, uh, maybe?" 

What's that you were saying about "arm chair quarterbacks?"

That me, just like you, unless you have an accurate answer on how it works!

Would love to hear it!