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[LRebel]

I was in a local independent bike shop yesterday.  We got to talking about tuning and one of the guys there started telling me about the Daytona Twin Tech.  The way he explained it is that, with a SERT, they can re-map a bike without putting it on a dyno.

He said that the Daytona Twin Tech (or SERT?) will store an hour (or two?) of data.  So, you go out and ride the bike varying the RPM and acceleration and then go back to the shop and hook up a computer to view the AFR in all the different throttle positions.  He said they can then adjust the AFR and timing as needed for each throttle position.

One negative; he said there is not anyway to get the hp & torque info.  Not sure I am really hung-up on knowing that info, as long as the bike is running as good as it possibly can.

If this is a good way to re-map a bike, the positive aspect that I can see is that you don't put the bike through the stress of high RPM's on a dyno.

Anyone have experience with the Daytona Twin Tech......Any opinions?  Is this a good option or is a dyno still the best option for tuning? 

[sportygordy]

It works very well, but SE new ignition does the same thing and offers more 'on the fly' record time. Personaly given a choice today, i would go with Screaming Eagles new ignition, if you can get one.

[grc]

Depends on which DTT product you're talking about.  DTT has a wide band sensor system that can be used as you described, to collect data which you can then use with a SERT or other tuning device to make manual adjustments to the map (WEGO).  They also have a complete ECM replacement that uses wide band feedback (TCFI).  Read more about them here:
http://www.daytona-twintec.com/

The WEGO option is one that at least a few folks on this site have used, and hopefully they will see this thread and respond.  If you have excellent knowledge of electronic fuel injection principles, plenty of patience, and enjoy tinkering then this is a viable option.  However, IMHO a dyno tune by an expert tuner will give you better results much quicker.  It all depends on what you want to accomplish. 

Jerry

[LRebel]

Depends on which DTT product you're talking about.  DTT has a wide band sensor system that can be used as you described, to collect data which you can then use with a SERT or other tuning device to make manual adjustments to the map (WEGO).  They also have a complete ECM replacement that uses wide band feedback (TCFI).  Read more about them here:
http://www.daytona-twintec.com/

The WEGO option is one that at least a few folks on this site have used, and hopefully they will see this thread and respond.  If you have excellent knowledge of electronic fuel injection principles, plenty of patience, and enjoy tinkering then this is a viable option.  However, IMHO a dyno tune by an expert tuner will give you better results much quicker.  It all depends on what you want to accomplish. 

Jerry

Jerry,

Thanks.  Yes, I am talking about the WEGO.

Troy

[maineultraclassic]

I've had the DTT TCFI Wego IId system installed on my bike since last August..........and it works great.

The initial setup is a little involved, but once that is done it's very easy to work with. Put in the basemap for your build, and go riding. After about 50 miles, hook up the laptop and download the info. Apply the BLM's, save the info, and upload it back to the bike. Go riding again............you want to do this about 5-6 times, every 50 miles or so apply the BLMs. As you keep doing this you'll notice the system will be making less and less adjustments as it gets the system running perfect.

Only thing you really have to play with is the advance tables (timing tables). They are not self adjusting, so you have to play with them to get the most out of your build.

My bike runs smoother now then it ever did when I was using a PCIIIusb with a dyno-tuned map in it.

Steve

[hd-dude]

From your description it sounds like they are using the Twinscan II with the WEGO III unit to log data. The software then recommends the changes that need to be made to the SERT map to hit the target AFR. Tuning this way works well but it is not the same as a dyno. I have done bikes this way at the shop and for the most part they do run great. The disadvantage would be in the wide open throttle tuning. Unless you have a drag strip to test on and collect data it is almost impossible to collect enough data to tune at the higher RPM's and speeds.


The other unit that others are mentioning is the TCFI II or III. It is a complete replacement ECM with the auto tuning capabilites. These work well also.
I have installed a few of the TCFI II / III units and like Maine stated the initial setup is cumbersome but once your throught it the unit works VERY well.

[copout221]

  Why don't you just use the Thundermax autotune system with O2 sensors and be done with it. I originally bought the DTT setup and decided to return it after researching the Zippers system. I installed it and have been using it for over 5k miles now. It is incredible and the bike runs perfect with no flat spots, hesitation, backfiring, etc. You can really feel how the bike performs as the system modifies the base map automatically after a few hundred miles. After that, you can pull the map off and save it for backup. VERY COOL !!! 

http://www.zippersperformance.com/catalogue/showproduct.asp?cat=588&prod=1415

[rednectum]

the twin scan II plus also works well with other tuners. as hd-dude said, just log and adjust over several runs and get afr dialed in. i would work timing tables on a dyno however.

hd-dude, have you been privvy to a beta of the new tuner from TheTurboShop?  cant wait to see one or hear more of the tested product.

[hd-dude]

the twin scan II plus also works well with other tuners. as hd-dude said, just log and adjust over several runs and get afr dialed in. i would work timing tables on a dyno however.

hd-dude, have you been privvy to a beta of the new tuner from TheTurboShop?  cant wait to see one or hear more of the tested product.

No I have not, have not heard of it either.....

[103_RK]

I used the twin scan II to tune my SERK.  It works great, with the O2 sensors you are able to get a correction to the volumetric effeciency table indicating how much to change each cell.  I thought it was money well spent since I never leave anything alone and always tend to change something.  The bike has never ran better.

[Chief]

I'll also chime in with a  for the Daytona Twin Scan II+. I bought it last year and used it to do my tuning. hd-dude is correct that it is more difficult to get good consistent runs (sweeps) than you can on a dyno. The device does allow tinkerers, like myself, to tinker on demand.

The best modification I made to the device was to wire it into the Acc. switch so I could start and stop the recording at will. With only 3,600 data points of data available and a fast recroding rate (5 points/sec) for doing 'pulls', the data buffer fills up in 12 minutes. Unless you can toggle the recording on and off, you wind up with a little bit of planned test data and a whole lot of not so interesting information.

This device isn't for everyone, but I like it a lot, and now that I've got a trailer I can use as a weighted sled to slow down the acceleration, I should be able to get better results. If the trailer drag isn't enough, maybe a drag chute would help.

[rednectum]

No I have not, have not heard of it either.....

as you know, mr cole from TTS no longer is providing the SERT, kent-moore is doing em now IIRC. mr cole has taken this liberty to give us a tuner that he tried to create from SERT, but HD wouldnt allow him to make changes. he now has that oppertunity! should (wiil) be very robust!! scheduled for release soon.

[sportygordy]

The best modification I made to the device was to wire it into the Acc. switch so I could start and stop the recording at will.

Chief,
I assume you are toggling your Twin Scan off an on with your ACC switch. This in return will power off your sniffers, "not good" as this will shorten their life. The sniffer heaters need to remain on while engine is operating which in return helps to reduce deposit build up. Not sure but i believe one of the DTT tech notes discusses this but in any case, Chris at DTT will definitely explain this to you.

[Chief]

Chief,
I assume you are toggling your Twin Scan off an on with your ACC switch. This in return will power off your sniffers, "not good" as this will shorten their life. The sniffer heaters need to remain on while engine is operating which in return helps to reduce deposit build up. Not sure but i believe one of the DTT tech notes discusses this but in any case, Chris at DTT will definitely explain this to you.

Not the way I have it set up. There are two units involved, the WEGO unit that has the O2 sensors attached and the Twin Scan II+ which connects to the WEGO unit for it's O2 sensor data and the ECM data port. Both units have their own power inputs. The WEGO unit is always on whenever the bike is on to keep the O2 sensors hot. I'm only toggling the power to the Twin Scan II+ which starts and stops it's recording.

You are correct that the sensors should always be powered "ON" when the motor is running.

[sportygordy]

You are correct that the sensors should always be powered "ON" when the motor is running.


[/quote]

O.K. Sounds like you have the switch set up right.. thought i would throw that out, just in case..