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[ccr]

most i have paid so far saturday 21st June 75lt  £99.69p = $188.41 diesel.....tax value..(vat & fuel duty combined=) .......  $98.94

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
I'm hating to think where it might stop.

[rednectum]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...............we must get together the next time Renea and I are down at The Outpost.  Haven't been to Blackcreek in two years now.  We'll be visiting later this year...............September, perhaps.  What is it............Walton County Rd 3280 that runs between FL20 and US331?  I love that road at 100mph on a Bagger.     I hope that place hasn'r changed much.  We used to hang out there every Sunday afternoon when we lived closer.  We'll be lodging in Seaside, FL this time.

dont post the date and time or you may get intercepted by an ugly guy on a black bike.

[Midnight Rider]

As some of you know, I'm selling new Toyota's for a living now (or attempting to).  Almost every single day, I have someone pull into the lot in a big assed truck, SUV, etc, etc that they purchased two or three years ago when few people foresaw the coming increase in fossil fuel prices.  Only a very few Americans are able to pay cash for a vehicle...most average Americans have to finance new cars for at least 60 months to get an "affordable" monthly payment.  Sooooo, these folks come into the dealership looking for something that gets over 30mpg, which is no problem for several Toyota gas only cars, including Yaris, Corolla, and Camry.  Even some of the 2.4 liter Tacoma's (mid size pickup) and Rav4 get close to 30mpg on the highway IF driven at 65mph.  They paid 40K or more for that big assed truck or SUV two years ago.  Even if gas prices had remained at $2.50 a gallon, they would have negative equity (upside down, or "hooked" as we refer to it) on trade in value.  Now, even if they've owned the vehicle for 4 years, they are still upside down due to the plumeting value of these vehicles.  And I mean these things are dropping by as much as $1000 a WEEK in value.  Some places, like CarMax, etc are refusing to even take these vehicles in trade, regardless, as they cannot resale, or even recoup the trade value at an auction.  My advice to those who have one of these vehicles and don't really NEED it for the purpose it was intended, is either take the hit and get rid of it, finance the negative equity into a new loan, and get something they actually can afford to operate, using the gas savings dollars to help offset the higher payment, and get it paid for, or pay on it for 4 years, and they will at least be even on the next trade.  If the big assed truck is paid for, and they actually NEED it on occasion, PARK IT, and buy something they can afford to drive back and forth to work and on vacations.  More than one person has actually gotten pissed off at ME for offering them 15K on a vehicle they still owe 30K on.  That is just the market value...the demand is just not out there for those vehicles.  If you NEED a big truck, you can get one for a song now...find a good used one, and you'll steal it.

I had a young medical resident from India buy a Corolla from me this past week...he was telling me about the conditions in his home country now.  The average person in his country has always DREAMED of owning their own car, something we take for granted here.  It may be a 3K car, but because of the economy in India right now, the average person is finally able to realize that dream.  Of course, India does not have the infrastructure to support the boom in vehicles on the roads, so traffic conditions are horrific.  Same thing is happening in China.  The point is, does anyone think for one millisecond that no matter what we do, demand for fuel is going to go DOWN?  If you do, you are living in a separate reality from the rest of the world.  We can chew up the entire Rocky Mountain Plateau for shale oil, drill in the Arctic, drill offshore in Florida, blah, blah, blah....which, by the way, would take about 10 years to realize any gain in production....and never see prices drop for fuel.

The bottom line is we can all bitch and moan about prices at the pump, but it's just pissin' in the wind, and it's blowin' all on your friends (Jerry Jeff Walker), but until we get a mindset of driving vehicles that actually FUNCTION to get us from point A to point B in relative comfort and efficiency, it's all just wasted words.  Existing technology needs to be improved, and alternative solutions need to be developed...that is the answer, plain and simple.  Human beings are not the masters of the Universe, or even this planet.  If you are of a religious mindset, the bible says we are given domain over all living things on this insignificant blue ball, and it also says we are to be good STEWARDS as well.  Raping the planet for our own selfish needs/wants will only escalate our own demise as a specie.

The guy who invented Hybrid Synergy technology for automobiles tried to sell it to GM..they were not interested, as they were realizing huge profits at the time....so Toyota bought the guy's genius, improved upon it, and now we have one of the most in demand vehicles in the marketplace now, the Prius, now in it's 4th generation of development, and more good things to come by 2010.  Now GM has purchased Toyota's 1st or 2nd generation of Hybrid Synergy technology, as has Honda, and a few others.  They'll never catch up...

Like it or not, you're going to be driving something very different in the next few years, or modify your lifestyle to put fuel in what you want to drive.

[SPIDERMAN]

TC
      I like you a lot man and much of what you're saying here is true, but you are way off the mark in your comments regarding someone who owns their vehicle outright. If I have a Ford F-350 and I'm getting say 14 mpg , I own it outright, no payments, and then I go out and buy a Tundra that gets 28 mpg,  I go from NO payment to what $3,000 down and $450 a month for 5 years ?  So I buy 1/2 the gas. What does the average person drive - - - 1200 miles a month ? So I'm going to buy 42 gallons of gas ($189) instead of 84 gallons ($378) for a savings of $189 per month. Don't see how I'd ever break even, let alone get ahead on this deal. It seems fairly obvious that your comment on parking the big truck is baseless buddy. Good luck on your new career. You seem to have caught on quick to the obvious similarities between car salesmen and politicians. 

B B

[Fired00d]

It was bound to happen.....

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[vagabond6542]

Quoting myself.........OK, so I had to drive the ton truck today.  Went to Rome, GA to drop off some stuff for Vgirl to sell in her new shop.  I nursed it along.  That big Cummins will actually get 22 mpg and better if I can keep my foot out of the fuel pump.  I was rather impressed.  It took alot of discipline to keep from rompin' on it, but at today's diesel prices.....................a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

What! I'm lucky to see 15.2 with the "04" Dually I have. How are you managing this?

[grc]

TC
      I like you a lot man and much of what you're saying here is true, but you are way off the mark in your comments regarding someone who owns their vehicle outright. If I have a Ford F-350 and I'm getting say 14 mpg , I own it outright, no payments, and then I go out and buy a Tundra that gets 28 mpg,  I go from NO payment to what $3,000 down and $450 a month for 5 years ?  So I buy 1/2 the gas. What does the average person drive - - - 1200 miles a month ? So I'm going to buy 42 gallons of gas ($189) instead of 84 gallons ($378) for a savings of $189 per month. Don't see how I'd ever break even, let alone get ahead on this deal. It seems fairly obvious that your comment on parking the big truck is baseless buddy. Good luck on your new career. You seem to have caught on quick to the obvious similarities between car salesmen and politicians. 

B B

Exactly.  It makes no sense for people to panic and unload their big vehicles at bargain basement prices, especially those who own them outright.  And I've yet to see a Corolla or Prius towing a travel trailer or a boat.  People have to be intelligent enough to analyze their own situation and not just follow the crowd.  For instance, back when gas was only in the $3 range I looked at trading the wife's Escape on the hybrid version (her idea, not mine).  Since she drives a whopping 6k miles per year, I figured at least one of us and quite possibly both would be dead before breaking even on the deal. 

Assuming gas prices continue up into the stratosphere, my strategy doesn't include dumping the paid for vehicles, but instead involves buying her a new bicycle along with an old fashioned reel lawnmower and a new snow shovel.  I want the world to know that my wife can be just as green as the next person. 

Jerry

[vagabond6542]

Exactly.  It makes no sense for people to panic and unload their big vehicles at bargain basement prices, especially those who own them outright.  And I've yet to see a Corolla or Prius towing a travel trailer or a boat.  People have to be intelligent enough to analyze their own situation and not just follow the crowd.  For instance, back when gas was only in the $3 range I looked at trading the wife's Escape on the hybrid version (her idea, not mine).  Since she drives a whopping 6k miles per year, I figured at least one of us and quite possibly both would be dead before breaking even on the deal. 

Assuming gas prices continue up into the stratosphere, my strategy doesn't include dumping the paid for vehicles, but instead involves buying her a new bicycle along with an old fashioned reel lawnmower and a new snow shovel.  I want the world to know that my wife can be just as green as the next person. 

Jerry

What you say  makes sense, to follow the crowd would be foolish. The best defense to all that has happen to the US in its economic crisis, is to establish priorities to the manner of life style a person wishes to obtain. Trust me, it will not be easy.
In the "60's", a family could live on $6240.00 a year with a little overtime. In today's dollars, that would translate to approx. $62,000.00 a year. It is just a matter of priorities.
Just my .02

Peace

[Midnight Rider]

TC
      I like you a lot man and much of what you're saying here is true, but you are way off the mark in your comments regarding someone who owns their vehicle outright. If I have a Ford F-350 and I'm getting say 14 mpg , I own it outright, no payments, and then I go out and buy a Tundra that gets 28 mpg,  I go from NO payment to what $3,000 down and $450 a month for 5 years ?  So I buy 1/2 the gas. What does the average person drive - - - 1200 miles a month ? So I'm going to buy 42 gallons of gas ($189) instead of 84 gallons ($378) for a savings of $189 per month. Don't see how I'd ever break even, let alone get ahead on this deal. It seems fairly obvious that your comment on parking the big truck is baseless buddy. Good luck on your new career. You seem to have caught on quick to the obvious similarities between car salesmen and politicians. 

B B

My degree is in Psych, BB  

Seriously though, I'm not saying you'd get ahead, or even break even, only that the money saved in fuel would help offset the payment for the more efficient vehicle, and in the bigger picture, conserve the resource.  And, if you put fewer miles on the paid for truck, you reduce maintainance costs as well.  Less than 1/2 the people with vehicles that are relative gas guzzlers (I'm talking trucks and SUV's, not big luxury cars) actually use the vehicle for the intent, but just 'cause they "like" being in a big vehicle that is actually less safe than most of the smaller, more fuel efficient cars on the road.  I'm talking about the "average" american, who uses their vehicle just to go back and forth the office 90% of the time, and not a contrator or other business that actually needs the power and space of a larger SUV or truck.  If the person bought a car which gets 35+mpg, or a Hybrid, which gets 45++mpg, the savings would be significant, particularly if they drove the car past the payoff period.  If all a person did in a Prius was drive in the city or crowded interstates getting back and forth to work, it is truely capable of over 60mpg.  And, it's no slouch in the torque/HP department because of the electric motor's inherent superiour torque.

Even the 1.8 and 2.4 liter gas engines with dual overhead cams and VVT-i (variable valve timing with intelligence) produce a lot more power than most people realize, as they are constantly changing the intake and exhaust cam timing to produce the most efficient yet powerful output to meet the needs of the driver's input.  Couple that with electronically controlled 4, 5, or 6 speed automatic transmissions (depending on engine pairing) with intelligence, and you have a responsive, yet efficient vehicle.  Most buyers who come in to our dealership, including some guys who are pretty big dudes, are really shocked at the interior space, power, and comfort of the new compacts and mid size cars.

On the other hand, if a person comes in who's making a 600 dollar a month payment on a truck they paid 30K for, has 5k in negative equity that has to be rolled into a 25K vehicle, for a total finance of 30K and a 600 dollar a month payment for 5 years, but is going to lower his/her monthly fuel costs by 1/2 or 2/3, the family budget is taking less of a hit every month.

I'm just seeing a lot more men come in looking for fuel economy to get back and forth to their jobs, and keeping the truck parked during the week and using it on the weekend to haul the bass boat, or go hunting, etc.

[REGGAB]

dont post the date and time or you may get intercepted by an ugly guy on a black bike.

What..........are you kidding me?  Dennis, you are one of the VERY FEW from whom that would be an honor.  You'll get a phone call, Brother!

[REGGAB]

What! I'm lucky to see 15.2 with the "04" Dually I have. How are you managing this?

Discipline, my friend.  Easy on and easy off the throttle.  EASY DOES IT..............all except for last night.  I was driving the ton truck taking me, Renea, Ken, and Cheri to supper.  I just love to see cars disappear in a cloud of diesel smoke at night.  It's OK to play every now and then.  I don't mind...........................damn.......even then I was getting 18.5........it sucks to be us.   

As for them Toyoter things.........keep 'em.  I'll keep my big assed truck.

[Midnight Rider]

Exactly.  It makes no sense for people to panic and unload their big vehicles at bargain basement prices, especially those who own them outright.  And I've yet to see a Corolla or Prius towing a travel trailer or a boat.  People have to be intelligent enough to analyze their own situation and not just follow the crowd.  For instance, back when gas was only in the $3 range I looked at trading the wife's Escape on the hybrid version (her idea, not mine).  Since she drives a whopping 6k miles per year, I figured at least one of us and quite possibly both would be dead before breaking even on the deal. 

Assuming gas prices continue up into the stratosphere, my strategy doesn't include dumping the paid for vehicles, but instead involves buying her a new bicycle along with an old fashioned reel lawnmower and a new snow shovel.  I want the world to know that my wife can be just as green as the next person. 

Jerry

Jerry, you are exactly right, my friend.  Here are some facts I've figured out through researching this subject:  Toyota offers a REALLY nice hybrid SUV called a Highlander that is rated by the EPA (they changed the way they rate vehicles, by the way) for 25/27.  If you're smart enough to do the calculations based on average miles per year most people drive, it would take 10 years to pay for the difference between the hybrid cost of the vehicle and the gas version.  Lexus makes a Hybrid that would take 60 years to pay for itself!!  I actually tell my customers that if they are buying for environmental reasons, or to conserve the resource, they are purchasing for the right reasons.  However, if they need the towing capacity, child carrying ability, etc, they are just as well off buying the gas only version for a few thousand less, as the 3.5V6 gets 18/25 (or more).  On the other hand, the Camry Hybrid will pay the difference off in approx 1.5 years, and the Prius will pay for itself in about 3 years, though it's a tough one because there's really nothing much to compare it to.  We currently have a waiting list of 8 people for Prius',so they are sold before they roll off the truck, and for MSRP +, varying in price from about 24K to 34K, depending on packages people want.

It just takes a few minutes to sit down and figure out if purchasing a new, more economical vehicle makes sense for your family.  Most people don't buy a new car because it makes sense, thank goodness.

[Midnight Rider]

Discipline, my friend.  Easy on and easy off the throttle.  EASY DOES IT..............all except for last night.  I was driving the ton truck taking me, Renea, Ken, and Cheri to supper.  I just love to see cars disappear in a cloud of diesel smoke at night.  It's OK to play every now and then.  I don't mind...........................damn.......even then I was getting 18.5........it sucks to be us.   

As for them Toyoter things.........keep 'em.  I'll keep my big assed truck.

I understand, Henry.

However, I'll put a Toyota Tundra with crew cab, towing package (10,800lbs), 5.7 liter, 381HP/401TQ, up against ANY truck in it's class, and I will guarantee superior performance in every single regard.

[vagabond6542]

I understand, Henry.

However, I'll put a Toyota Tundra with crew cab, towing package (10,800lbs), 5.7 liter, 381HP/401TQ, up against ANY truck in it's class, and I will guarantee superior performance in every single regard.

Does it out do a 325/600 Cummings, 6-speed manual with a 373 rear end?  I forgot to mention it's a electronic shift 4X4 dually.  If interested in specs, Look up the "04" Laramie by Dodge.
This puppy will haul a 35ft fifth wheel, GVW of 16k with no trouble. I'd like to see the Tundra do that.
That is the reason this engine will on its best day give 15.2 mpg.

[RedDevil]

Jerry, you are exactly right, my friend.  Here are some facts I've figured out through researching this subject:  Toyota offers a REALLY nice hybrid SUV called a Highlander that is rated by the EPA (they changed the way they rate vehicles, by the way) for 25/27.  If you're smart enough to do the calculations based on average miles per year most people drive, it would take 10 years to pay for the difference between the hybrid cost of the vehicle and the gas version.  Lexus makes a Hybrid that would take 60 years to pay for itself!!  I actually tell my customers that if they are buying for environmental reasons, or to conserve the resource, they are purchasing for the right reasons.  However, if they need the towing capacity, child carrying ability, etc, they are just as well off buying the gas only version for a few thousand less, as the 3.5V6 gets 18/25 (or more).  On the other hand, the Camry Hybrid will pay the difference off in approx 1.5 years, and the Prius will pay for itself in about 3 years, though it's a tough one because there's really nothing much to compare it to.  We currently have a waiting list of 8 people for Prius',so they are sold before they roll off the truck, and for MSRP +, varying in price from about 24K to 34K, depending on packages people want.

It just takes a few minutes to sit down and figure out if purchasing a new, more economical vehicle makes sense for your family.  Most people don't buy a new car because it makes sense, thank goodness.

Terry,
You guys sound like HD now...MSRP + for a Prius.  Last I checked a fully loaded Prius goes for about $29K, if you're selling them now for $34K, that's a tidy $5K gouging profit (the owner of your dealership isn't Fat Bastard is it?)...it's all supply and demand, just like the oil prices.  The car dealerships are just as guilty of ripping the consumers off as big oil is.  In that sense, you're no different then big oil.  If the owner of dealerships were actually concerned about the environment and saving fuel costs, they wouldn't be gouging their customers like that and would be pushing the more fuel efficient vehicles by passing on incentives to the customer, not ripping them off.  Now, all your talk about saving costs over the life of the vehicle on gas gets wiped out by the $5K + gouge the owner has placed on the car.  Doesn't hurt your 3% commission either.  My wife has a Prius that we bought in 04 and paid MSRP and most dealerships were asking $1500 over for it because they were very popular.  It boils down to everybody talks bold about saving fuel and buying energy efficient vehicles, but the consumer/customer get screwed.