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[103CRG]

My first post to this forum and I have enjoyed the topics and information on the CVO's found here. I took delivery in Sept. 03 of an 04SEEG and have enjoyed many miles of trouble free riding. This bike has the Stage I SE A/C, SE slip-ons and has been remapped with the Race Tuner. This done in the spring of 2004. I'm planning to replace the exhaust later this season with something better than the current pipes/SEslip-on system. I'd like to keep or hopefully improve as much of the lowend torque as I can.  [smiley=1syellow1.gif]

My question. Lately this bike has been hard to re-start with a hot motor. Usually after less than a 15minute shut down. It can take several attempts before it will start. When cold or allowed to sit longer it fires right up on the first crank everytime no matter what the outside temp is. Idles well, performance and fuel mileage is great. Have used the Race Tuner and found no fault codes. I have good charging voltages (14 to 15v)with the system loaded and also use a bettery tender when not riding. Do I need a new battery or starter this soon?
     

[hd-dude]

103;
Welcome to the site! I don't know what your problem might be but I can tell you that I doubt it is the starter or the battery. If it has good cranking than both are fine. Are you waiting for the engine light and the security light to go out before trying to start?

[103CRG]

dude;
Yes I wait for the lights to go out before starting. This problem started last fall just before winter storage time. I assumed a load of bad gas at the time. Doesn't appear to be the case with fresh gas. Hard to describe. Motor kicks as soon as starter is ingaged,  throws out start clutch then quits. If I hold the start button down longer, letting starter work, it acts like it hits a motor compression pulse really slows cranking but always starts the motor. Not sure what to think.. Maybe the start drive? This only happens after motor is up to full temperature. A short hop around the patch won't do it. I'm going to check the voltage drops on battery cables next. Haven't done a real load test on the battery yet. But with all electrics on and over 2k RPM the charging voltage is just fine.
Any words of wisdom are appreciated. I hope your having better riding weather than here in the wet Northeast.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Tonys]

dude;
Yes I wait for the lights to go out before starting. This problem started last fall just before winter storage time. I assumed a load of bad gas at the time. Doesn't appear to be the case with fresh gas. Hard to describe. Motor kicks as soon as starter is ingaged,  throws out start clutch then quits. If I hold the start button down longer, letting starter work, it acts like it hits a motor compression pulse really slows cranking but always starts the motor. Not sure what to think.. Maybe the start drive? This only happens after motor is up to full temperature. A short hop around the patch won't do it. I'm going to check the voltage drops on battery cables next. Haven't done a real load test on the battery yet. But with all electrics on and over 2k RPM the charging voltage is just fine.
Any words of wisdom are appreciated. I hope your having better riding weather than here in the wet Northeast.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Hi 103, welcome...sorry your first post was on a problem. I am no mechanic, but have been around Harleys for many years. I have an 05 that does the same thing as yours. I am fortunate in that I work at a dealer..had the tech chk it out. He said starter, battery and charging system are good. He suggested compression releases.  I did not do any internal engine work....yet. I plan on gear cams and different heads and compression releases. Apparently several stock 103's have had similiar things happen. I don't know if that is your problem. I always use the highest octane gas I can find, it still does it. Hope this helps and as far as the weather it has been TERRIFIC!   [smiley=beerchug.gif]

[harly2]

CRG103:

I had the same problem. I have about  4 thousand miles on my o5 and it started to get hard to start after getting warm. I took it back to the dealer and they adjusted the fuel injection. What they told me was that Harley ships them within their tolerences and that soemtimes they are adjusted right on the edge of the specs. Mine was the sixth 05 (not all SEEG's) that they had to readjust the fuel injection.

They simply warm it up then put it on their computer and adjusted it. I just completed a 1100 mile ride through the Blue [smiley=beerchug.gif Ridge and it started fine every time since the adjustment.  [smiley=7.gif]

[Twolanerider]

CRG103:

I had the same problem. I have about  4 thousand miles on my o5 and it started to get hard to start after getting warm. I took it back to the dealer and they adjusted the fuel injection. What they told me was that Harley ships them within their tolerences and that soemtimes they are adjusted right on the edge of the specs. Mine was the sixth 05 (not all SEEG's) that they had to readjust the fuel injection.

They simply warm it up then put it on their computer and adjusted it. I just completed a 1100 mile ride through the Blue [smiley=beerchug.gif Ridge and it started fine every time since the adjustment.  [smiley=7.gif]

They did what?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Short of loading a different map there's not an "adjustment."  These things don't have mixture screws to tweak the fuel mixture like a carb.  If they didn't load a new map there's not any "adjustment" to be made.

On top of everything else with the quality of work that comes out of the dealerships now we have to worry about them not admitting the extent of problems they actually are fixing just so they can make it sound better or easier or more reassuring?

[Twolanerider]

He suggested compression releases.  

With the stock compression ratio on these motors being what it is it's nonsense to suggest we need compression releases.  Sounds like some suggesting a fix they hope might work because they don't know what the problem really is.  Y'know, if the suggested hope-it-might-work-kind-of-fix-cause-I-honestly-don't-know-what-the-problem-is repair is a simple one sometimes you have to do just that (make your best guess).  But when you can look up what the CR is on these you have to know better than to suggest to someone that he start drilling new holes in his motor  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[110tHunDer]

Twolane's right, that's a ridiculous diagnosis.  What do these things have, 9.0:1 compression or something like that?  Besides, compression releases are primarily for saving wear and tear on your starter, not improving the bike's ability to get fire in the hole.  As long as the engine is cranking over fine, you have another problem, not related to high-compression, 'cause these bikes don't have such a thing (stock).

[HUBBARD]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, 103CRG,
 Your timing is not correct.  Later--HUBBARD

[shovelhead71]

to get your engine off compression stroke after shutting down with a standard engine - with engine off just have it in 2nd gear - roll her backwards untill she is off compression - just saved you a couple hunderd dollars you can donate to run this site. big boys with big toys need compression releases so when they do fire it is much easier on the starter to get em to roll over & fired

[Coolbreeze]

I'm with Hubbard.  It sounds to me like the motor is pre-detonating, (just like your old camaro did every once in a while when you left the distributor loose so you could crank the timing up for the stoplight races) .  I would try a cold beer over the head (the motor head) before starting hot, and if/when that doesn't work, use the bottle to beat the dealer and make them fix the ECM.  The temp sensor is fried....  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[spydglide]

I'm with Hubbard.  It sounds to me like the motor is pre-detonating, (just like your old camaro did every once in a while when you left the distributor loose so you could crank the timing up for the stoplight races) .  I would try a cold beer over the head (the motor head) before starting hot, and if/when that doesn't work, use the bottle to beat the dealer and make them fix the ECM.  The temp sensor is fried....  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

If that's the case, wouldn't he have a 'code' light popping up on the dash? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]  spyder

[Coolbreeze]

Duh....  yeah.  I didn't think of that.  But I also can't think of anything else that would cause it to backpressure so badly that it overcomes the starter motor...  Guess I'm out of guesses...  Wish I could listen to it so I understood the question better...

me too! [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Tonys]

With the stock compression ratio on these motors being what it is it's nonsense to suggest we need compression releases.  Sounds like some suggesting a fix they hope might work because they don't know what the problem really is.  Y'know, if the suggested hope-it-might-work-kind-of-fix-cause-I-honestly-don't-know-what-the-problem-is repair is a simple one sometimes you have to do just that (make your best guess).  But when you can look up what the CR is on these you have to know better than to suggest to someone that he start drilling new holes in his motor  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

well, excuuuuse me...I was repeating what the service guy told me...Im not a mechanic, apparently you all know more than I about this so I'll sit back and read [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[110tHunDer]

Not to speak for Twolane, but I think he was just trying to keep you from drilling holes in your heads based upon the suggestion you were given from your tech for solving the problem. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]