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[SBB]

No great surprise there if that's what it turns out to be.  Real question will be first look at a parts manual to see the engine breakdown looking to see how many -A or -B revisions there are.  It's sad when a powerplant is in multi-year production and the only line that comes to mind is "to those that are about to die....."

I will go by the dealership on the way home today and see if they have a bulletin.

 

[Twolanerider]

I will go by the dealership on the way home today and see if they have a bulletin.

 

The 110s can be made to run ok.  Give them the normal intake/exhaust/tune efforts that many have chosen to do for years anyway.  If only they just didn't eat themselves.  Crossing my fingers that they're finally being done right.

[grc]

Does this only cover the 110's for model year 2007 ?

And what about the crank shaft issues ?

B B

What crank issues - I thought the spec change "fixed" that.    I don't think Willy G. and crew have ever acknowledged that one, might open up a huge can of worms since it isn't just a 110 issue.  So far they seem to be handling it as an isolated part quality issue, when they aren't blaming the owner for modifying the bike, rather than a wholesale screw-up.  All I know is, I don't want one, and I'd like to have some money invested in replacement oil pumps.

Jerry

[Steve_G]

A lot of the problems with the 110s have had to do with cylinder liner slippage.  Until they get a different cylinder, who cares about better gaskets? 

[110tHunDer]

The 09 S/Eagles will be 110's.
That is a definate!

 

Pool boy told ya so?

[ultrafxr]

A lot of the problems with the 110s have had to do with cylinder liner slippage.  Until they get a different cylinder, who cares about better gaskets? 

OK techies help me out here.  Friend who is pretty knowledgeable and wrenches for himself and friends told me he's been reading about 110 cylinder liner problems.  As he understands it the aluminum cylinder itself is the same for the std bores - 3 3/4; 3 7/8 and the 4.00 bore on our 110s.  So the sleeve on the 110 is thinner and can't handle the heat and this is what causes the movement/slippage.  Don't know.  I thought the 110 cylinders were larger than the others.  If true could this be the cause of our problems?

[SPIDERMAN]

OK techies help me out here.  Friend who is pretty knowledgeable and wrenches for himself and friends told me he's been reading about 110 cylinder liner problems.  As he understands it the aluminum cylinder itself is the same for the std bores - 3 3/4; 3 7/8 and the 4.00 bore on our 110s.  So the sleeve on the 110 is thinner and can't handle the heat and this is what causes the movement/slippage.  Don't know.  I thought the 110 cylinders were larger than the others.  If true could this be the cause of our problems?

S&S had a problem a few years back with the liners moving in their cylinders. If you caught it time, they'd replace the jugs AND pay the labor. If not however many shops fixed the problem by "staking" the sleeves in the cylinders. GRC (Jerry) can do a much better job than me of explaining what is meant when you say "staking"  Maybe he'll see this or you can PM him

B B

[Chief]

A lot of the problems with the 110s have had to do with cylinder liner slippage.  Until they get a different cylinder, who cares about better gaskets? 

The thought process behind the better gaskets is that they are able to maintain the necessary oil path seal allowing for 'slight' liner movement, up to 0.004". If the liner goes kaput and moves a lot, then you are correct, but the "B" gasket has done quite well in stopping leaks, even with slight liner movement.

[skreminegul07]

OK techies help me out here.  Friend who is pretty knowledgeable and wrenches for himself and friends told me he's been reading about 110 cylinder liner problems.  As he understands it the aluminum cylinder itself is the same for the std bores - 3 3/4; 3 7/8 and the 4.00 bore on our 110s.  So the sleeve on the 110 is thinner and can't handle the heat and this is what causes the movement/slippage.  Don't know.  I thought the 110 cylinders were larger than the others.  If true could this be the cause of our problems?

Ultra, I have posted this theory several times.  They went one bore too far.  That's why I feel confident that 113" jugs (if machining wasn't necessary) or Axtell or other beefier jugs would actually fix the problem.
Hotter motors due to lean settings, less mass to dissapate heat, heat /epansion liner slip, and of course less gasket mating surface area+ The perfect storm for a leaker. 
C'mon fix!

[hard10]

AJ, only Tech Bulletin I'm aware of is TT370, Revised May 13, 2008 - Twin Cam Service Parts Updates.  It lists the new head gasket 16801-07B, new ACRs 28861-07A, new 'square' base seals 11907, and new rocker housing & gasket 17573-99A and 16719-99B.

I have been told that this is not 'the fix' and more is to come.  So if there is a new tech bulletin out please let us know when you check with your dealer.

I spoke to the SM this afternoon. He checked HDNet and said that there were no new bulletins. Sorry to be the bearer of the "no" news, just don't shoot the messenger.

[RedDevil]

I spoke to the SM this afternoon. He checked HDNet and said that there were no new bulletins. Sorry to be the bearer of the "no" news, just don't shoot the messenger.

And this surprises me how?   

   

[grc]

The thought process behind the better gaskets is that they are able to maintain the necessary oil path seal allowing for 'slight' liner movement, up to 0.004". If the liner goes kaput and moves a lot, then you are correct, but the "B" gasket has done quite well in stopping leaks, even with slight liner movement.

Chief, I think you're correct.  It looks like the MoCo is trying to improve the head gasket so that it is a little more forgiving of slight movement.  However, I don't believe that will ever be a good longterm fix.  After time and many temperature cycles, any gasket design I've ever seen will become less compliant.  So as long as there is any measureable liner movement, I wouldn't be confident that a gasket would provide more than just a temporary fix.  Just as a bandaid doesn't fix a six inch gash in your forehead, a bandaid won't fix this issue either.  It's time for the MoCo to suck it up and spend the money to redesign the jugs.  What was it the Fram guys used to say, "you can pay me now, or pay me more later"?  

I know it will never happen, but I really wish everyone would just take a pass on a new Harley until they fix their obvious quality problems.  Until they see massive losses, I'm not convinced that they are taking any of these issues seriously enough.  The leaks are just one of the more minor issues; how about the myriad electrical problems, the crank problems, etc.?

Jerry

[scottt]

I wonder if this is the reason my dealer honed my cylinders and installed new rings as part of the fix, along with the new gaskets? They told me, using this process, they had not had one 110" motor come back with a leak. I guess time will tell. They also told me that they had not seen a single 110 with a crank issue, only 96" motors. If problems do continue, Harley will spend a lot of money covering all the ext warrantee's. I am covered until Sept. 2013.

Scottt

[grc]

I wonder if this is the reason my dealer honed my cylinders and installed new rings as part of the fix, along with the new gaskets? They told me, using this process, they had not had one 110" motor come back with a leak. I guess time will tell. They also told me that they had not seen a single 110 with a crank issue, only 96" motors. If problems do continue, Harley will spend a lot of money covering all the ext warrantee's. I am covered until Sept. 2013.

Scottt

Honing the original cylinders and installing new rings won't have any affect on the liner slippage issue, it's just a good policy to do that whenever you tear one down and put it back together.

The 110 crank is the exact same part as the 96 crank, no difference at all.  If your dealer hasn't seen a crank problem yet in a 110, that is just the luck of the draw and not proof of a superior part in the 110's.

Actually, Harley won't be spending a lot of money on the service contract repairs.  That money comes from all those folks who buy the service contracts, similar to the way an insurance policy works.  So I guess you could say that current and future customers with ESP will be footing the bills, less the deductible.

Jerry

[SPIDERMAN]

Honing the original cylinders and installing new rings won't have any affect on the liner slippage issue, it's just a good policy to do that whenever you tear one down and put it back together.

The 110 crank is the exact same part as the 96 crank, no difference at all.  If your dealer hasn't seen a crank problem yet in a 110, that is just the luck of the draw and not proof of a superior part in the 110's.

Actually, Harley won't be spending a lot of money on the service contract repairs.  That money comes from all those folks who buy the service contracts, similar to the way an insurance policy works.  So I guess you could say that current and future customers with ESP will be footing the bills, less the deductible.

Jerry

Jerry
        I made a post on another thread about the issues S&S had with liner slippage a few years back. Some folks who were beyond the warranty had their liners " staked" into the cylinders. Was hoping you'd explain this for folks as I know you can do a better job of it than me

B B