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[GEEZER-X]

Hey guys, information and question is actually in concern for a friend of mine. My friend has a O4 FLHTultra clasic. He had the motor built to a 120ci He had the head work done by Head Quarters, using their 600 lift 0033g cams, TP pistons using a 55mm throddle body, yellow band injectors with a Borzilla Exhaust, Compression is about 10:5, roller rockers and all the good things to bring it together. It has been a tuning nightmare for some reason. Finally got a really good tuner in N.M. to put a good tune on his SERT. The motor is only putting out 98 hp and 118 Tq. I really think that kind of motor should be up around 120-130 hp and about the same in TQ from every thing I read, give or take a little. Does any one have any idea why the numbers may be so low. I was hoping some of  you with more experience might have some ideas. I know it might be a lot of things, but I don't know what to look into to make it better. Any thoughts would be appreciated, seems a shame to spend the bucks he did and have the power a nice 95in bike would have. Thanks guys. If you need any more information, I can try to get it.. GEEZER

[Coolbreeze]

From what you've provided, I would guess that the cam is timed one tooth, maybe two, retarded.    Probably one tooth, becuase two would already have be noticed.  Any odd noise from the intake?

[hd-dude]

A 120" motor should easily put out 120 /120. There is something wrong either with the dyno or the build. The most important thing is how does the bike feel?

I would take it to another dyno and have them do a few pulls just to see. All dynos are different and even the same dyno on a different day will show different results with the same bike.

If the motor is that low on the output side I would check for sumping. It is possible that the oil pump is not scavenging the oil out of the case causing excessive drag on the flywheels. This is most commonly caused by the oil pump oring at the case nt being installed correctly or torn upon installation.

[GEEZER-X]

thanks for the response, to the first, the bike has been dyno'd in Kansas, and N.M. The dyno in Kansas put the #'s at about 115 HP and 118 Tq.  The tuner in N.M. said that the air difference because of the alitude in NM might make some difference, and his dyno is a bit stingy on HP and TQ, I personally ride a 04 Flhtse with a 107", after his tune we had to put the up againt each other, and I stayed with him side by side to about 100, then he started pulling me by a bout a bike length. Just doesn't seem right, I got 4000$ in mine and he has 11000 in his, I would think he should spank me from the get go. My bike does run decent, but still. I will mention the oil sumping and the  cam maybe being off a tooth or two. If anyone else has any ideas, please let me know. I do appreciate your info.. GEEZER

[DCFIREMANN]

I am with HD DUDE on this one. I will bet my left N$T that it is wet sumping!!!! It is so easy to pinch the O ring on the end of the pump that sticks into the case.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Coolbreeze]

I would note for sumping before the cam being off too.  You'd hear it thoroough the intake on heavy throttle if the cam was off.... 

It's easy to test for sumping too....   just drain the oil and dyno it again and see if the numbers jump!   




THAT"S A JOKE!!!!!!     

[DCFIREMANN]

I would note for sumping before the cam being off too.  You'd hear it thoroough the intake on heavy throttle if the cam was off.... 

It's easy to test for sumping too....   just drain the oil and dyno it again and see if the numbers jump!   


THAT"S A JOKE!!!!!!     

That is a good one!!!! It might be kinda like the Castrol commercial.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[GEEZER-X]

Thats pretty funny, well the numbers would probably jump alright, but only for a minute or two  On a real note, how do they check for sumping, and if the bike was sumping wouldn't it be sluggish? This bike doesn't seem sluggish, did I spell that right?? Thanks.

[Hoist!]

I've learned not to necessarily go by or worry about the numbers. Tuners set up their dynos different to each other. There's no standard they adhere to. And Dynojet's dynos will show higher numbers than dynos that actually measure torque.

How does it feel "seat of the pants"? That's all that matters. If it feels "right", it probably is. If not, it surely isn't!

Hoist!

[DCFIREMANN]

To tell if you are wet sumping, get the engine warm just sitting and idling. After that go out for a spin. Crack the throttle. If the bike seems sluggish, run at about 3 grand in a lower gear. After a minute or some crack the throttle. If it seems to have a little more jump then you are definitely wet sumping!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Harleypingman]

Tell your buddy to contact Doug or Kevin at HQ.  An HQ 120" build (using HQ heads, pistons by CP, cams, etc.) will easily provide 140+ tq; the hp will be effected by the pipe choice but should be 120 or higher.  Kevin is a very good friend and I know three guys with HQ 120's that make those numbers.  Of course, those are all HQ kit builds--don't know what your buddy did to use JE pistons, or who did the machine work on the cylinders.  If it's a carbed bike, Doug or Kevin can help with jetting and ignition; if it's EFI, Kevin can look at his map to see if there are problems there.  None of the three builds I know of were a problem to tune.

Two of the three 120's were on a long trip to the Southwest a month ago along with Kevin's HQ 113" build, an HQ 98" and HQ 95" ridden by two other guys that covered 5K miles and was named "2008 HQ Power Tour."  All of the bikes got 40+ mpg and ran well.  You can read about it and see pics here:

http://www.head-quarters-usa.com/ushome.html

[Sean M Cary]

I've learned not to necessarily go by or worry about the numbers. Tuners set up their dynos different to each other. There's no standard they adhere to. And Dynojet's dynos will show higher numbers than dynos that actually measure torque.

How does it feel "seat of the pants"? That's all that matters. If it feels "right", it probably is. If not, it surely isn't!

Hoist!

Still on the borrowed PC?

Offer stands if you need a hand - I am the ubergeek.

Sean

[GEEZER-X]

Thanks for the info guys.. I'll pass it along..

[AMP]

What dynamometers actually measure is torque (in pound-feet), and to convert torque to horsepower you simply multiply torque by rpm/5,252.
The parasitic loss to the drum, i.e. weight of bike and or rider, weight of the drum itself, tranny, tire size, barametric pressure, altitude, etc... are the variables that can't be controlled, only factered in.