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Author Topic: Lack of Moco Customer Service  (Read 6050 times)

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srqseeg

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2005, 08:06:58 PM »

Elvis,

Thanks for the customer service number, but those are the folks I've been talking with.  The customer service rep agreed with me and tried to solve the problem.  His bosses said "No."  As we talked, it became evident it was because they do not want customers coming back with appeals once they have denied the claim.  So their answers can get quite bizarre as they try to cover their boss in customer service.  Very sad the customer service representatives aren't given more authority to solve problems.  Instead of delighting a customer, they disappoint them.  Maybe AMF should buy back the MoCo.  The MoCo is definitely headed down the wrong path!
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WFP

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2005, 08:23:41 PM »

Time to go right to the Stockholders....hey JCZ, Time to attend the Annual Stockholders meeting to set them straight!  Mistreated customers means less future customers...just look at Mrs. We's comment.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2005, 08:24:10 PM by WFP »
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customryder

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2005, 09:52:02 PM »

very poor rep in western ky. did not know anything about my bike (but acted like he did) had some bad paint on my fairing where they motor co, tried to spot in a place. very rude & very loud with some bad language too. i assure you the motor co would not approve of his matter. i was about to complain about him to HD when he called singing the blues. some people suck.   he tired to blow a bunch of crap up me, but it did not work... i got the fairing.
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grc

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2005, 11:43:38 PM »

The reason the Motor Company treats us this way is that we have let them get away with it.  If any of you are familiar with the auto industry (I've worked for one of the domestic manufacturers for 33 years, in functions ranging from owner relations to zone service manager to quality engineer to assembly plant management), Harley's current attitude is very similar to that of the domestic auto manufacturers in the late 1970's.  We were selling everything we shipped out the doors and running at maximum capacity, so who gives a crap if we piss off a few customers.  Then 1979/1980 came along, and people stopped buying our crap.  One company eventually required a government bailout to stay in business, and the other two shut down dozens of plants and put huge numbers of people out on the street.  The public started buying Japanese cars, and found that the quality and reliability were much better.  The domestic manufacturers have been losing market share ever since.  

So, what do we do?  In addition to complaint letters to the Motor Company, I personally intend to forward my thoughts to various government and consumer agencies.  One example:  The fuel injection map supplied by Harley is meant only to get past the EPA - they know damn well that the driveability is lousy, but for about $600-$800 more, they will sell us "race only" (wink-wink) intake, exhaust, and fuel injection modifications that will make the bike run like it should.  In the auto industry, we have been forced in the past to recall vehicles that exhibited the stumbling and stalling that these bikes exhibit,  because it was considered a safety defect.  We have also been nailed by the Feds when we had the dealers modify the emission systems to solve customer driveability complaints.  Anyone with any sense knows that Harley is playing fast and loose with the rules, and making a ton of extra profit selling us parts that do not comply with the EPA emissions and noise standards to fix their poor engineering.  And we go right along with the gouging and keep sending our bucks to Milwaukee.  As I stated once before on this site, God help Harley when us old farts die off and the youngsters brought up on much better quality Japanese bikes refuse to pay twice the price for Harley's inferior products.
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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2005, 09:51:45 PM »

Thought I'd post this for anyone interested in contacting any or all of the board members.

HARLEY-DAVIDSON, INC.
BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Barry K. Allen
Executive Vice President, Operations
Qwest Communications International Inc.

Richard I. Beattie
Chairman
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP

Jeffrey L. Bleustein
Chairman of the Board
Harley-Davidson, Inc.

George H. Conrades
Executive Chairman
Akamai Technologies, Inc.

Judson C. Green
President & Chief Executive Officer
NAVTEQ Corporation

Donald A. James
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Deeley Harley-Davidson Canada/Fred Deeley
Imports Ltd.

Sara L. Levinson
ChairMom of ClubMom, Inc.
Former President of the Women’s Group of
Rodale, Inc. and former President of NFL
Properties, Inc.

George L. Miles, Jr.
President & Chief Executive Officer
WQED Multimedia

James A. Norling
Chairman
Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing Ltd.

James L. Ziemer
President & Chief Executive Officer
Harley-Davidson, Inc.

Correspondence to members of the Harley-Davidson, Inc.
Board of Directors should be addressed as follows:
Harley-Davidson, Inc. Board of Directors
c/o Secretary
Harley-Davidson, Inc.
3700 West Juneau Avenue
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208
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HUBBARD

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2005, 08:49:50 PM »

Quote
The reason the Motor Company treats us this way is that we have let them get away with it.  If any of you are familiar with the auto industry (I've worked for one of the domestic manufacturers for 33 years, in functions ranging from owner relations to zone service manager to quality engineer to assembly plant management), Harley's current attitude is very similar to that of the domestic auto manufacturers in the late 1970's.  We were selling everything we shipped out the doors and running at maximum capacity, so who gives a crap if we piss off a few customers.  Then 1979/1980 came along, and people stopped buying our crap.  One company eventually required a government bailout to stay in business, and the other two shut down dozens of plants and put huge numbers of people out on the street.  The public started buying Japanese cars, and found that the quality and reliability were much better.  The domestic manufacturers have been losing market share ever since.  

So, what do we do?  In addition to complaint letters to the Motor Company, I personally intend to forward my thoughts to various government and consumer agencies.  One example:  The fuel injection map supplied by Harley is meant only to get past the EPA - they know damn well that the driveability is lousy, but for about $600-$800 more, they will sell us "race only" (wink-wink) intake, exhaust, and fuel injection modifications that will make the bike run like it should.  In the auto industry, we have been forced in the past to recall vehicles that exhibited the stumbling and stalling that these bikes exhibit,  because it was considered a safety defect.  We have also been nailed by the Feds when we had the dealers modify the emission systems to solve customer driveability complaints.  Anyone with any sense knows that Harley is playing fast and loose with the rules, and making a ton of extra profit selling us parts that do not comply with the EPA emissions and noise standards to fix their poor engineering.  And we go right along with the gouging and keep sending our bucks to Milwaukee.  As I stated once before on this site, God help Harley when us old farts die off and the youngsters brought up on much better quality Japanese bikes refuse to pay twice the price for Harley's inferior products.


Yeah, 'er 'uh, grc,
 You intend to forward your thoughts to various Government and Consumer agencies?  Have you lost your mind?  Did you have the unfortunate experience of owning a Harley when AMF owned the MoCo?  I don't recall having the luxury, back then, of choosing which SE High Performance Parts and components I wanted, to cure my "Speed Jones."  We literally had to fabricate most, if not all, of our "Go Fast", components.  As for the "Warranty" issues, you, of all people, should know that Warranty covers workmanship, and material.  Warranty does not apply to worn out, jerked out, lack of lube, lack of maintenance, or abuse.  There is a certain expense, we, as owners of an "American Legend", must incur for the privilege of being fortunate enough to buy, and own one.  That being said, ALL, not some or most, ALL the warranty issues I have experienced over the years, with the Harley's I have had the pleasure to own, have been addressed in a friendly, business like manner, and been resolved in a timely fashion.  And, furthermore, as you have probably noticed, I'm an A$$HOLE, and very particular about my "Led Sled!"  Maybe you, and some others, that are whining and complaining, because the MoCo will not subsidize your Harley Riding Pleasure, then, by all means, go buy you a Honda, or Kow, or Susuki, or some other piece of chit, that will be worth just that, as soon as you title it!  Yeah, and BTW, see how many heads turn, when you go by on a Honda!  See how many people gather around that "cross the water chit", and say, "Man, that sure is a Good-Lookin" Motorsickle!"  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD              
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 08:50:57 PM by HUBBARD »
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Elvis

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2005, 09:56:42 PM »

Quote

Yeah, 'er 'uh, grc,
  You intend to forward your thoughts to various Government and Consumer agencies?  Have you lost your mind?  Did you have the unfortunate experience of owning a Harley when AMF owned the MoCo?  I don't recall having the luxury, back then, of choosing which SE High Performance Parts and components I wanted, to cure my "Speed Jones."  We literally had to fabricate most, if not all, of our "Go Fast", components.  As for the "Warranty" issues, you, of all people, should know that Warranty covers workmanship, and material.  Warranty does not apply to worn out, jerked out, lack of lube, lack of maintenance, or abuse.  There is a certain expense, we, as owners of an "American Legend", must incur for the privilege of being fortunate enough to buy, and own one.  That being said, ALL, not some or most, ALL the warranty issues I have experienced over the years, with the Harley's I have had the pleasure to own, have been addressed in a friendly, business like manner, and been resolved in a timely fashion.  And, furthermore, as you have probably noticed, I'm an A$$HOLE, and very particular about my "Led Sled!"  Maybe you, and some others, that are whining and complaining, because the MoCo will not subsidize your Harley Riding Pleasure, then, by all means, go buy you a Honda, or Kow, or Susuki, or some other piece of chit, that will be worth just that, as soon as you title it!  Yeah, and BTW, see how many heads turn, when you go by on a Honda!  See how many people gather around that "cross the water chit", and say, "Man, that sure is a Good-Lookin" Motorsickle!"  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD              



Well said.

A fellow a$$hole,

elvis
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2005, 10:10:12 PM »

Hmmmmmm


Just wanted to save that one quote from Tater,, just in case the need arises that I have to remind him.

"And, furthermore, as you have probably noticed, I'm an A$$HOLE, "
******************************************************


But I'm with Tater (I modified this post to include Elvis also) (Go Elvis) on the other stuff! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Just like the below quote
"Anyone with any sense knows that Harley is playing fast and loose with the rules, and making a ton of extra profit selling us parts that do not comply with the EPA emissions and noise standards to fix their poor engineering."

Talk is cheap!
Action is all that counts!
Do something about Harley playing fast with the rules.
Don't be a whiner!

And that last line!

", God help Harley when us old farts die off and the youngsters brought up on much better quality Japanese bikes refuse to pay twice the price for Harley's inferior products."
**********************************************************************

I happen to employ and know many of those "youngsters" you speak of  and they all want a  Harley like Chip's or a fast one like that a$$hole in West by God Virginny. Then again these "youngsters" work for a living and have better things to do with their time than whine!


Reminds me of a subcontractor I used in Hilton Head a long time ago.
He was telling everyone I had chit him out of money for work he did.
I finally tracked him down and asked him about it. He said "You didn't pay me for that drywall patch I did." I asked "Did you bill me?" Nope was the reply How much I asked?
25 bucks. I gave him $25 on the spot and made him sign that he received it.

Moral of story
He didn't want to get paid
He wanted the excuse to piss and moan about something.

Some people are like that
Quit pissin and moaning, do something about it
Sell that Harley
It will help clear out the wanna bee's at the Harley shop
Get a Goldwing
 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 10:13:26 PM by hd2003-se2005 »
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spydglide

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2005, 10:36:53 PM »

Chip, you can't start 'stock-piling' all the Tater quotes you think might come in handy later on..........you'd have to invest in more 'memory storage' right away on your 'puter'.  Har!    [smiley=nervous.gif]  spyder
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2005, 10:46:01 PM »

Sorry, sorry, sorry

But Spyder that's a good one!

Betting it will not take long for the need to use it comes up!

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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grc

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2005, 10:53:18 PM »

Dear Fellow A$$holes  -  you have your opinions, and I obviously have mine.  In reading through the various messages in this forum concerning quality, warranty, and service issues, I do not recall anyone asking Harley to subsidize anything caused by the owner, just to fix the lousy quality from the Motor Company.  I don't think expecting all the parts on a $30K plus motorcycle to work properly, not fall off, etc. is asking Harley to subsidize my riding experience.  I also do not think asking Harley to provide a bike that doesn't stumble and stall is asking Harley to susidize my riding experience. Let me ask you this: would you accept that kind of quality in your car or truck?  One of the points of my previous post was that it is in Harley's best interest that we complain long and loud when their products do not meet our needs and expectations, and that they need to respond and improve rather than blindly follow the American auto industry down the tubes.

By the way, I refused to buy a Harley back during the AMF days due to the lousy quality, and instead rode several different Japanese bikes.  Not a single one of those bikes ever went back for a warranty repair, all of the parts and accessories worked as intended (such as gauges that actually gave useful information), and every one of them would  blow the Harley's of the day into the weeds.  I only switched to Harley after I was convinced that the new management had their "chit" together.  My last bike prior to the SEEG was an FXDX Super Glide Sport, and with the exception of the clunky, notchy transmission I had no problems with it and I loved it.  Now it seems that Harley management is so intent on increasing capacity and production (more profits) that they have let quality slip.  And that wonderful resale value you mentioned?  Guess what is happening to that now that Harley is cranking out bikes as fast as they can.  Every dealer I have visited this year has lots of new bikes on the showroom floor, which is extremely unusual in this area.  In the past, if you didn't have an "in" with a dealer and didn't want a Sportster, you had to get in line to buy a new bike.  That's why the used bike prices were just as high as the new bikes.  Well, all I can say is take a look at the book trade-in values now.  

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Elvis

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2005, 10:58:19 PM »

I think most of us have been riding HD for years and wouldn't trade our Harley for anything....OK 'ceptin maybe a night with Heather Locklear in her prime....but I digress.

The point is, many of us, like Srqseeg who started this thread (and myself) feel our dealer has become Whoopi Goldberg in a thong.      [smiley=laugh.gif]

elvis
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Elvis

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2005, 11:21:52 PM »

Quote
Dear Fellow A$$holes  -  you have your opinions, and I obviously have mine.  In reading through the various messages in this forum concerning quality, warranty, and service issues, I do not recall anyone asking Harley to subsidize anything caused by the owner, just to fix the lousy quality from the Motor Company.  I don't think expecting all the parts on a $30K plus motorcycle to work properly, not fall off, etc. is asking Harley to subsidize my riding experience.  I also do not think asking Harley to provide a bike that doesn't stumble and stall is asking Harley to susidize my riding experience. Let me ask you this: would you accept that kind of quality in your car or truck?  One of the points of my previous post was that it is in Harley's best interest that we complain long and loud when their products do not meet our needs and expectations, and that they need to respond and improve rather than blindly follow the American auto industry down the tubes.

By the way, I refused to buy a Harley back during the AMF days due to the lousy quality, and instead rode several different Japanese bikes.  Not a single one of those bikes ever went back for a warranty repair, all of the parts and accessories worked as intended (such as gauges that actually gave useful information), and every one of them would  blow the Harley's of the day into the weeds.  I only switched to Harley after I was convinced that the new management had their "chit" together.  My last bike prior to the SEEG was an FXDX Super Glide Sport, and with the exception of the clunky, notchy transmission I had no problems with it and I loved it.  Now it seems that Harley management is so intent on increasing capacity and production (more profits) that they have let quality slip.  And that wonderful resale value you mentioned?  Guess what is happening to that now that Harley is cranking out bikes as fast as they can.  Every dealer I have visited this year has lots of new bikes on the showroom floor, which is extremely unusual in this area.  In the past, if you didn't have an "in" with a dealer and didn't want a Sportster, you had to get in line to buy a new bike.  That's why the used bike prices were just as high as the new bikes.  Well, all I can say is take a look at the book trade-in values now.  

 



Now calm down there, Scooter.
You are bit doom and gloom tonite.  I don't believe the MoCo is the next Oldsmobile and I don't think you do either.  Yes, there are some issues, MINOR issues with the SEEG but all bikes have issues or haven't you noticed?  You want crap paint and no chrome, go check out the fit and finish on a Honda or Yamaha....sucks, had em.  So lets agree to disagree there...HD by far has the best fit and finish in the bike world...and you pay for it.  As of resale, never been that great on any used machine, HD is no exception, tho better by far than any bike out there.  As for your comment about parts falling off, isn't that the tired old line the Honda boys used to say?  No parts off in 3 HDs over 20 years....maybe I just got lucky.

elvis
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110tHunDer

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2005, 11:47:13 PM »

Quote
HD by far has the best fit and finish in the bike world...and you pay for it.


You mean putting a new front wheel on, all four floorboards and a transmission top cover was all figured in to the $30,000 price tag?  No wonder these things cost so much.  Part of the original purchase price goes to cover the warranty costs, lol.

There probably is not going to be much fence-sitting on this issue.  I think everyone's opinion on this is going to be based on their experiences with H-D and other brands and products (like automobiles) that they've had over a lifetime.  So far, although I've had some issues with the chrome, everything's been taken care of for me.  But, to be honest, that doesn't mean I'm going to ever forget it happened.  Will it cause me to buy another brand next time?  Probably not, but I'll never say never.  Getting the stuff taken care of under warranty helps my situation, but others, srqseeg included, seem to have gotten crapped on for some reason when trying to do the same.

I have to say, I am concerned about the replacement chrome and what it will look like a year from now when the bike is out of warranty and the replacement will be on my dime.  Somehow, I think I may feel differently about it then (if it does, in fact, happen), and it will be tough to keep the thoughts of my 12 years of trouble-free Kawasaki ownership from clouding my vision about what to do.
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: Lack of Moco Customer Service
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2005, 07:31:22 AM »

103T's quote

"Part of the original purchase price goes to cover the warranty costs, lol."

Brian, that is exactly right.
If it isn't figured in then it will come out of profits.
It's a part of doing business.
Could you imagine the outrage when stock holders find out your using profits to settle warranty claims. Heads will roll!


My post wasn't intended to offend anyone.
I have always been a person that fixed my own problems.
If it's so bad or causing me such agony and I can't get it resolved then I get rid of it.
It's that easy, no whining, no pi$$ing and moaning. Just gone!

[smiley=bigok.gif]

And hey, I hear Goldwings can be had for 3.9% financing.
Get ya some!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 07:33:06 AM by hd2003-se2005 »
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