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[murphy]

Sorry but I have to point out that this statement is completely wrong. Anyone including the owner of the vehicle can perform the service. All you need to do is keep the receipts for the fluids, gaskets, etc. and a log of what you did (just follow the service manual). A vehicle manufacture cannot deny warranty claims just because they did not do the service.

GRC has the best advice, Find a good Indy or better yet get the manual and become one with your bike

This is the best advice... DIY... buy a good manual and keep the receipts for your products.

I started doing the regular maintenance stuff on my own a while ago, everyone here will guide you through what you need to do.

Even when the not so regular stuff that comes up... someone here has done it before and will offer guidance.

Best part is you will get to know how your bike works, and some twit wont be breaking stuff or damaging it while its in the shop!

If you find a good Indy guy for the bigger jobs, they may even let you lend them a hand as well!

[Keats]

Sorry but I have to point out that this statement is completely wrong. Anyone including the owner of the vehicle can perform the service. All you need to do is keep the receipts for the fluids, gaskets, etc. and a log of what you did (just follow the service manual). A vehicle manufacture cannot deny warranty claims just because they did not do the service.

GRC has the best advice, Find a good Indy or better yet get the manual and become one with your bike

The Statement is not wrong, "that is why I pay the dealer". The fact is, that you can do it yourself with careful record keeping, but that does not mean it will always be easy. Dealers deny claims just like the MOCO does, and the fact that they are not supposed is different than reality sometimes. I do not have any first hand knowledge of a claim being denied, but it is worth it to me to have all records of the bike on their computer and when it comes to resale of the bike which records are more valuable, The pile of receipts and hand written notes or the printed service records from the dealer?

The point is "you can do  it yourself" , but the records must be kept in a clear logical fashion to convince the dealer that you have done "correctly" what you said you have done. The dealer you use knows you and you have a good relationship this will not be hard, but if you only have seen the dealer when they delivered your bike, they may not be so warm and fuzzy in taking your word.
and what are we really talking about......a $1200 expenditure over 2 years if you ride 15,000 miles on a $35,000 + bike , that is perspective. 
I am assuming that you do not go out and buy a bike like these if you are getting food stamps

[grc]

The only reason I can see paying the dealer for this service is to keep the warranty intact.

without proof that this was done properly gives creedence to deny warranty claims (which they may do anyway)

This is their biggest hammer they (the dealer) have to hold over your head to stay with certain dealer services.

......................................... what are we really talking about......a $1200 expenditure over 2 years if you ride 15,000 miles on a $35,000 + bike , that is perspective. 
I am assuming that you do not go out and buy a bike like these if you are getting food stamps

Why perpetuate myths, halftruths, and plain ol' BS?  Unless H-D can PROVE that a failure is the direct result of lack of maintenance, they cannot legally refuse warranty service.  The fact that some dealers still try to bluff customers into believing this crap is enough in itself to keep me from ever doing business with the lyin' cheatin' bastards. 

So, I guess what you're saying is that it is perfectly OK to pay extortion similar to the old protection rackets run by the mob, just because someone who buys a $35k motorcycle obviously can afford $400 oil changes.  I'll make sure to stop by the local Jiffy Lube and mention that theory to all the folks I see there with their Merc's and Beemers.  I'm sure the Mercedes and BMW dealers would love to see your theory embraced by the masses.

Jerry

[ak]

The Statement is not wrong, "that is why I pay the dealer". The fact is, that you can do it yourself with careful record keeping, but that does not mean it will always be easy. Dealers deny claims just like the MOCO does, and the fact that they are not supposed is different than reality sometimes. I do not have to any first hand knowledge of a claim being denied, but it is worth it to me to have all records of the bike on their computer and when it comes to resale of the bike which records are more valuable, The pile of receipts and hand written notes or the printed service records from the dealer?

The point is "you can do  it yourself" , but the records must be kept in a clear logical fashion to convince the dealer that you have done "correctly" what you said you have done. The dealer you use knows you and you have a good relationship this will not be hard, but if you only have seen the dealer when they delivered your bike, they may not be so warm and fuzzy in taking your word.
and what are we really talking about......a $1200 expenditure over 2 years if you ride 15,000 miles on a $35,000 + bike , that is perspective. 
I am assuming that you do not go out and buy a bike like these if you are getting food stamps

   In time you,ll understand grasshopper---Doesn,t matter if your recorder are in there computer or not. they( the dealer ) will still try to weenie out if it cost them money at some point.. At bigger locations it could take you 3 weeks to get an oil or tire changed..Also they want an arm and a leg for new tires..Unless you have the owner in you pocket (like chip) your treated like a comcast customure ----AK

[MJZ]

   In time you,ll understand grasshopper---Doesn,t matter if your recorder are in there computer or not. they( the dealer ) will still try to weenie out if it cost them money at some point.. At bigger locations it could take you 3 weeks to get an oil or tire changed..Also they want an arm and a leg for new tires..Unless you have the owner in you pocket (like chip) your treated like a comcast customure ----AK

BINGO! A truer statement has never been made. I have not thought about it but that is exactly how HD treats it's customers, which is why I have DirecTV.

[Keats]

Why perpetuate myths, halftruths, and plain ol' BS?  Unless H-D can PROVE that a failure is the direct result of lack of maintenance, they cannot legally refuse warranty service.  The fact that some dealers still try to bluff customers into believing this crap is enough in itself to keep me from ever doing business with the lyin' cheatin' bastards. 

So, I guess what you're saying is that it is perfectly OK to pay extortion similar to the old protection rackets run by the mob, just because someone who buys a $35k motorcycle obviously can afford $400 oil changes.  I'll make sure to stop by the local Jiffy Lube and mention that theory to all the folks I see there with their Merc's and Beemers.  I'm sure the Mercedes and BMW dealers would love to see your theory embraced by the masses.

Jerry

If you have a failure and the claim is denied due to lack of maintenance. You have the broken bike with no repair, tell me who has the burden of proof? 

I am not saying you have to get this done by a dealer, you can do it yourself but if  the burden of proof is on you which it will be then prove to me that your scheduled maintenance was done correctly.
In consumer law the burden is on the party that is trying to get "something", so the burden would be on the aggrieved party "yourself".
You file in court in small claims for a Judgement and go before a Judge and Say I did perform the maintenance correctly and here are my expert mechanics who are here to testify that I am right and they are wrong.
Now it will never hardly get that far, due to time and expense on both sides.
You win the case (maybe) and you get the bike repaired under warranty.

sounds like a good plan

They may deny the claim even if you paid the dealer for scheduled maintenance. What do I know?
The relationship with your dealer is important, so  if it is a bad one, you are not getting anything anyway and do the maintenance yourself.

[hd-dude]

If you have a failure and the claim is denied due to lack of maintenance. You have the broken bike with no repair, tell me who has the burden of proof? 

I am not saying you have to get this done by a dealer, you can do it yourself but if  the burden of proof is on you which it will be then prove to me that your scheduled maintenance was done correctly.
In consumer law the burden is on the party that is trying to get "something", so the burden would be on the aggrieved party "yourself".
You file in court in small claims for a Judgement and go before a Judge and Say I did perform the maintenance correctly and here are my expert mechanics who are here to testify that I am right and they are wrong.
Now it will never hardly get that far, due to time and expense on both sides.
You win the case (maybe) and you get the bike repaired under warranty.

sounds like a good plan

Accordong to the MM Warranty act the burden of proof is on the vehicle manufacture and or dealer.

[lilbear]

BINGO! A truer statement has never been made. I have not thought about it but that is exactly how HD treats it's customers, which is why I have DirecTV.

The truth is that there are a few good servicing HD dealerships that have maybe one or even two good wrenches.  Unless you have a good relationship with that service center and know who is wrenching on your bike, your bike is in the hands of incompetents.  A good Indy earns your business through quality work and reputation. His driving factor is to make you, the customer, happy.  If you aren't happy, you won't come back and certainly won't refer your friends.  The HD service center is a budgetary concern for the dealership whose primary purpose is to minimize costs and show profit for the dealership.  Quality service at any given HD dealership is certainly not a given.  I'm not saying the independent isn't out for profit, because, he certainly is, but motivation and business practice are entirely different.  Bikes show up in the HD service centers because it is within the dealership.  Bikes show up for service etc. at the Indy shop because their owners made the decision which is almost always based on that Indy's reputation or previous experience.

[murphy]

Wow... it's gettin hot in here!

[MJZ]

The truth is that there are a few good servicing HD dealerships that have maybe one or even two good wrenches.  Unless you have a good relationship with that service center and know who is wrenching on your bike, your bike is in the hands of incompetents.  A good Indy earns your business through quality work and reputation. His driving factor is to make you, the customer, happy.  If you aren't happy, you won't come back and certainly won't refer your friends.  The HD service center is a budgetary concern for the dealership whose primary purpose is to minimize costs and show profit for the dealership.  Quality service at any given HD dealership is certainly not a given.  I'm not saying the independent isn't out for profit, because, he certainly is, but motivation and business practice are entirely different.  Bikes show up in the HD service centers because it is within the dealership.  Bikes show up for service etc. at the Indy shop because their owners made the decision which is almost always based on that Indy's reputation or previous experience.

I agree with that and that is exactly why I feel so fortunate to have found Brian Rose at Southern Thunder HD.

[BIGDOG]

I told you the hate was on it's way! This is a hotttttt button issue that will never be resolved. I do need to point out though that if you have contempt for the person you are dealing with they will know and react accordingly. You most certainly will not get friendly service with an adversarial attitude.

[Keats]

According to the MM Warranty act the burden of proof is on the vehicle manufacture and or dealer.

So a manufacturer withholds a claim and it is his responsibility to prove that he should pay you.....there are no reasonable penalties for not providing the services.
We can pontificate on what should happen, but the real world dictates that the one holding the money wins. While you argue that they owe you something, your bike sits.
The penalty for being wrong, you pay the man what you owe him.

If you are planning to go to a gunfight.....at least bring a loaded gun...

[ultrafxr]

Personally I would like to know of instances of wattanty being denied due to lack of maintenence - first hand knowledege not from Willie G's pool boy who only know about new models.

I had engine problems with my '99 Ultra and of course the '110' issues.  Never have I even been questioned and I do all my routine maintenance like fluid changes. 

Just wonder how much angst we really should have over this since I'll bet it just doesn't come up much at all.  I think we'd run into warranty issues much quicker due to mods we've made to our bikes rather than servicing them oursleves.

[grc]

Personally I would like to know of instances of wattanty being denied due to lack of maintenence - first hand knowledege not from Willie G's pool boy who only know about new models.

I had engine problems with my '99 Ultra and of course the '110' issues.  Never have I even been questioned and I do all my routine maintenance like fluid changes. 

Just wonder how much angst we really should have over this since I'll bet it just doesn't come up much at all.  I think we'd run into warranty issues much quicker due to mods we've made to our bikes rather than servicing them oursleves.

Jerry, if people would quit putting out false information on this subject the whole thing would just fade away.  As 'dude pointed out, the Federal government regulates warranties and all the BS in the world doesn't change that.  If anyone feels the need to tolerate extortion just so they can feel more confident their dealer won't try to screw them, I would suggest they need to find another place to do business.

Oh, btw, everyone does realize that you don't have to go to your selling dealer, right?  You can take your bike to any franchised dealer for service under the terms of the warranty.  That pretty much negates any retaliatory action some unscrupulous dealership might try to take under the "pay the protection fee or else" theory.  

Jerry

[iski]

If bike oil changes, fluid changes, and routine service maintenance were low cost (as they are for most cars), not as many folks would do their own maintenance.  I like to do the fluid changes, etc. in part because I know a lot more about what is going on with the bike as it rolls up the miles.  I notice stuff that needs attention or may need attention shortly. Plus, for me it's fun.  Get a manual & get a good torque wrench or get a good mechanic - those are the options.

Does my dealer service dept. let me know what's wrong when they have the bike?  Yes, usually, but their butt is not the one sitting on that seat - mine is.  Do I utilize the dealer for some stuff - you betcha & I can be a picky SOB.  For the "easy" stuff, I choose to do it myself & have never had a warranty issue arise because of that.

I know some who do practically everything & some who do practically nothing - even installing the simplest piece of chrome bling.  They will run to a dealer or an indie even for a loose mirror - and that's what makes 'em happy.  Does not matter to me, and it's their business, not mine.  Some dealers & some indies take advantage - and as to which one does more of that - it's subjective.  Trouble is, on some stuff unless you really know what is going on, you place trust in another to get it right.  Some do a better job of that than others, and the tales on this board of bikes that sit in shops unridden waiting for some damn thing - indie or dealer - tell a sad story.  I'd rather ride it that see it collect dust.  Now I climb off the     

 

Mike