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Midnight Rider

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 09:45:03 PM »

National lotto!

Leagalize, regulate and tax prostitution, illicit drugs, pot and whatever else one desires to ingest, stuff up ones own or someones elses orifice and whatever debauchery can be utilized as a revewnue stream..

Invade some hapless country and take their chit...

We wouldn't have to invade any hapless country if we taxed all the stuff people are going to do anyway, whether it's against the law or not.  Sell pot in the local ABC/liquor stores, and all our tax woes would be a thing of the past...at least temporarily.  Until we invaded some hapless country and had to stay there for 100 years to keep them all from killing each other.
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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2008, 02:43:38 AM »

If we just reduce expenses we don't replace the trillions Bush has pissed away. I hate taxes like the rest of you but we have to pay off our debt. If some one can explain how to do that with out more taxes that would be great , but you are not going to develop more jobs in this global economy and a tax rebate is like leaning into a punch. I sure don't have the answer but neither does MCCAIN or OBAMA. One just tells you what you all want to hear and the other tells you all what might have to be done. :nixweiss:

you pay off the debt by reducing expenses (so that we dont have to keep borrowing 2 BILLION per DAY to pay for everything we consume), export more products (which is easier to do today with the depressed dollar), tax less so people have more money.  The Federal Govt has become to big, bloated and corrupted.  They dont have to pay their bills (they just borrow until someday they wont be able to borrow in US dollars or they print money), they fool us with their fake accounting.  The day the US government has to issue bonds denominated in foreign currency to raise money because no one wants US dollars anymore is the day we are in BIG trouble.

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CVOJOE

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2008, 04:01:33 AM »

Quote
Quote
hmmm....      I think that Snopes has developed a slant.  I can't prove it, but I think it.

I didn't do a full "Snopes" on the stuff, but I am starting to believe what I quoted above for most things political. Seems to me they also slanted quite a few of the Hillary stuff as well. Such is life.

Wonder what Wonder Witch is doing these days?  :nixweiss:
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WaSEEG

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2008, 09:58:34 AM »

If we just reduce expenses we don't replace the trillions Bush has pissed away. I hate taxes like the rest of you but we have to pay off our debt. If some one can explain how to do that with out more taxes that would be great , but you are not going to develop more jobs in this global economy and a tax rebate is like leaning into a punch. I sure don't have the answer but neither does MCCAIN or OBAMA. One just tells you what you all want to hear and the other tells you all what might have to be done. :nixweiss:

+1, and legalize and tax drugs.  When I was a young attorney I had a long conversation with one of the members of the state board of prison terms and parole.  He had been dealing with the recidivism rate and drug issues his entire career and was ready to retire.  He was definitely not a "soft on crime" kind of guy.  He thought the billions spent on the "war" on drugs (reminds me of the "war" on terror) was a complete waste.  Drugs will always be available on the black market and account for a larger percentage of the costs of prison and jails than most know.  He was a proponent of legalization.  His theory was that for a generation after legalization we'd be stepping over bodies in the street with needles hanging out of their arms.  It's much easier to kill yourself with a drug overdose than to drink your self to death (although some manage every year).  People will eventually get the message and self regulate their usage.  Very much like what happens with alcohol and tobacco now.  There will always be some who have "addictive" personalities and will consume to excess.  We'd save billions on prison and enforcement costs and add billions in new tax revenue.  I always thought that was an interesting idea but years ahead of when, we as a society, might be that farsighted.  In the '60's I thought marijuana legalization was right around the corner, but what do I know.
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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2008, 10:02:46 AM »

We wouldn't have to invade any hapless country if we taxed all the stuff people are going to do anyway, whether it's against the law or not.  Sell pot in the local ABC/liquor stores, and all our tax woes would be a thing of the past...at least temporarily.  Until we invaded some hapless country and had to stay there for 100 years to keep them all from killing each other.

Kill them all 1st then take all the ....um....I don't know, can cars run either maple syrup or coconut milk?

The practioners of the worlds oldest trade in some place I have been are quite fancy, that is a hugh , dare I say, "untapped " tax source...
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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2008, 10:17:11 AM »


The usual riff from politicians & voters - non party specific is:

"Don't tax you, Don't tax me, let's tax that man behind the tree!"



Each political side claims the taxes (or tax cuts) they propose are wonderful & the taxes (or tax cuts) their political opponents propose will be the ruination of our society & lead to recessions, depressions, and economic ruin.

If we send tax money to our government, they will spend all that money plus as much more money than that as they think they can get away with. Governments have the fiscal responsibility of a 13 year old with Mommy or Dadddy's credit card in a store full of goodies they think they cannot live without.  Generally I prefer candidates that say they will reduce taxes since govt. is a very wasteful & non efficient way to spend my money.  I prefer to spend my money in a wasteful & non efficient way myself, dammit!   

Candidates that promise to waste my money by raising my taxes are more like a 12 year old with that credit card, BTW. Our federal govt. does too much already.  Would prefer it to do less, frankly.
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BIGDOG

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2008, 12:01:55 PM »

Earmarks and addon's form all the members of congress ( Except MaCcain) added to the pissing away and no sign of stopping. NO- to Health Care, one of the unseen cost that's adding to health care , Go to the emergency room and see how many(NON) Citizens are waiting for health care that won't be able or willing to pay.

Cut the Earmarks and Subsidy's before Rasising Taxes higher.

Stop Voting for the democrats- They cannot live without Revenue in the form of TAXES ON EVRYTHING- So they can give stuff away.

Wake T F U Bush is not a Democrat . Stop thinking Democrat - Republican. Think about the country as a whole and how do we fix it for the good of all.
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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2008, 08:26:26 PM »

The usual riff from politicians & voters - non party specific is:

"Don't tax you, Don't tax me, let's tax that man behind the tree!"



Each political side claims the taxes (or tax cuts) they propose are wonderful & the taxes (or tax cuts) their political opponents propose will be the ruination of our society & lead to recessions, depressions, and economic ruin.

If we send tax money to our government, they will spend all that money plus as much more money than that as they think they can get away with. Governments have the fiscal responsibility of a 13 year old with Mommy or Dadddy's credit card in a store full of goodies they think they cannot live without.  Generally I prefer candidates that say they will reduce taxes since govt. is a very wasteful & non efficient way to spend my money.  I prefer to spend my money in a wasteful & non efficient way myself, dammit!   

Candidates that promise to waste my money by raising my taxes are more like a 12 year old with that credit card, BTW. Our federal govt. does too much already.  Would prefer it to do less, frankly.


Well said. 

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2008, 08:29:26 PM »

+1, and legalize and tax drugs.  When I was a young attorney I had a long conversation with one of the members of the state board of prison terms and parole.  He had been dealing with the recidivism rate and drug issues his entire career and was ready to retire.  He was definitely not a "soft on crime" kind of guy.  He thought the billions spent on the "war" on drugs (reminds me of the "war" on terror) was a complete waste.  Drugs will always be available on the black market and account for a larger percentage of the costs of prison and jails than most know.  He was a proponent of legalization.  His theory was that for a generation after legalization we'd be stepping over bodies in the street with needles hanging out of their arms.  It's much easier to kill yourself with a drug overdose than to drink your self to death (although some manage every year).  People will eventually get the message and self regulate their usage.  Very much like what happens with alcohol and tobacco now.  There will always be some who have "addictive" personalities and will consume to excess.  We'd save billions on prison and enforcement costs and add billions in new tax revenue.  I always thought that was an interesting idea but years ahead of when, we as a society, might be that farsighted.  In the '60's I thought marijuana legalization was right around the corner, but what do I know.

my guess is that eventually the US will have to legalize many drugs as it does with alchohol and tobacco.  When our country is dead broke and more people are on the dole than pay into system, we will be forced to look for areas to raise money and legalizing drugs will be a huge one.

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VAZHOG

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2008, 08:41:48 PM »

Taxes and Democrats
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owenja

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2008, 10:01:56 PM »

Odd to me how everyone jumps all over the "Socialized Medical Care", just like "third world countries".  What third world countries are you talking about?  

We have the MOST expensive (read BEST)health care system of any developed country in the world, and the LEAST number of people with healthcare coverage. (How are all of these unwed mothers having 4+ healthy kids, taking them to the doctor for regular check ups, shots etc.) The vast majority of developed countries...like the European, Scandinavian countries, etc...have BETTER, more responsive, more personalized, more localized healthcare, that is LOWER in cost, compared to the US. (Move there if you like it so much)  (I've been to some of those countries you mentioned and believe me we have it much better here)

It's also funny (in an odd way, not a humorous one) how it's always the people who can afford the very best private health care insurance, are the ones bitching about their fear of national healthcare policy.  When is everyone going to understand that the ones who are insured PAY for those who are not, regardless of how it is accomplished.  Who do you think pays for the charge backs for those who go to the emergency room (the most expensive health care) but do not have insurance to cover the visit, and only go there because they do not have a regular doc they can call up to tend to their needs?  EVERYONE!!!  

How many here are NOT covered by private health insurance, either out of pocket, because you make enough money to actually afford a $900 a month premium, or through their place of employment, who picks up the lion's share of the premium costs?  How many people here are making $10 an hour, with NO coverage, or with some chitty coverage with a 2K deductable per year, which costs them $100 bucks a week for family coverage?  I would venture to say NOBODY.  I'll even raise the stakes:  $20 an hour?  Ever priced an effective health care policy for your family?  Could you pay for GOOD coverage for your children on $20 an hour if your company offered little, if any, benefits?

It's disgraceful that the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world does such a piss poor job of taking care of it's citizens health care needs(what happened to personal responsibility?  Keep taking care of people who are able and they will never learn nor want to learn to take care of themselves).  SOMETHING needs to be done, even if the initial implementation has a few bugs to work out.   No system is perfect, but what we have here just plain sucks for those who are not fortunate enough to work for companies who provide good benefits to their employees.

Believe me I am far from wealthy and have busted my butt for everything we have.  It disgusts me that people who CAN work choose not to because WE (read our government) will take care of everything for them.  Liberals have created a welfare society that rewards such behavior therefore it's a growing problem and they need more of OUR money to take care of what they created. 

It's my bet that if our tax brackets were determined by party affiliation (lower for Repulicans and higher for Democrats) there would be a lot of liberals jumping ship to register as Republicans!
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2008, 11:19:07 PM »

Yeah, all those working poor people out there who are trying their best to make ends meet, but still can't afford decent health insurance...f'em, they're just a bunch of stupid f@#ks who can't figure out how to make their own way.  Let 'em die...but for God's sake, let's not abort any of the unwanted ones, or pay for it either...lets just pay for it later in oh so many ways.

I have always been particularly fond of the "love it or leave it" statement.  Shows a real love of country to make a statement like that, and a deep understanding of what the country actually stands for....and it's so thoughtful too!
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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2008, 01:33:15 AM »

Yeah, all those working poor people out there who are trying their best to make ends meet, but still can't afford decent health insurance...f'em, they're just a bunch of stupid f@#ks who can't figure out how to make their own way.  Let 'em die...but for God's sake, let's not abort any of the unwanted ones, or pay for it either...lets just pay for it later in oh so many ways.

I have always been particularly fond of the "love it or leave it" statement.  Shows a real love of country to make a statement like that, and a deep understanding of what the country actually stands for....and it's so thoughtful too!

Look, its not black and white for sure in terms of the issues and how to fix them, but it is true that the wealthest and most educated people tend to eat better, take care of themselves better and use less services and they are going to be forced disporportionately to take care of those that dont.  As we know this cant last.  Personal responsibility has to play into this argument.  People dont have the RIGHT to every possible health care test in the world - perhaps we need to set a minimum standard of health care but force people to make decisions - just like any other economic decision that is made in this world. 

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Midnight Rider

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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2008, 08:44:44 AM »

Look, its not black and white for sure in terms of the issues and how to fix them, but it is true that the wealthest and most educated people tend to eat better, take care of themselves better and use less services and they are going to be forced disproportionately to take care of those that don't.  As we know this cant last.  Personal responsibility has to play into this argument.  People don't have the RIGHT to every possible health care test in the world - perhaps we need to set a minimum standard of health care but force people to make decisions - just like any other economic decision that is made in this world. 

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Please never mistake me for someone who does not believe in personal responsibility.  I am all for helping folks out when in need, but I am NOT in favor of a never ending free lunch, except for those who honestly cannot do for themselves.  The gene pool is not always kind to some people, and there is an honest limit to their capabilities.  There are a lot of reasons for that, some of which can be fixed, and some that will never be fixed.  I have worked with groups of people who honestly don't know that when they have a job they need to have an alarm clock, be at work on time, etc.  They were never taught about work ethics, generally because they had no good examples set.  White and black.  Most of them WANT to work.  I have personally experienced age discrimination the past few months trying to find a job in the field I have over 12 years experience in doing, and even willing to take a dramatic cut in pay just to get my foot in the door and prove my own abilities.  Suzanne is experiencing the same thing.  Suzanne currently has NO health insurance.  The company I work for offers health insurance for their 200+ employees, and it's Blue Cross, but it's not worth a chit because of the huge deductibles that must be paid, and the employees share is VERY expensive.  $500 a month for family coverage.  Do the math if you're making 10 bucks an hour, or even a lot more than that.  That's the same as their house payment in many cases.  So their choice, despite the fact that they are hard workers, and doing the best they are capable of doing, or have not been in the right place at the right time to do better, is to eat and have a decent roof over their head, and pray that they don't get really sick, or their kids.  Two nights in the hospital, and a relatively simple bladder surgery...the hospital bill for me was well over 15K.  Didn't cost me a dime because my employer at the time furnished great health insurance, and my cost was 50 bucks a month.  That same problem now would have me paying about 7K of that out of pocket, if I did not have great health insurance because I worked 30 years for the State and get it through my pension plan.

Education is the key, but those systems are suffering badly as well, for a variety of reasons.

My point is that we are all paying the costs of a poor health system for those who do not make enough money to pay the exorbitant premium costs that even adequate health care costs.  No doubt that we have some of the most technologically advanced medical care in the world, and some of the best doctors available...for those who can afford it.  But we've got to have service workers, clerical support, and the myriad of other jobs out there that pay poor wages, and the people simply can't do more than they are doing.

Something will give, whether we like it or not.  Proactively tackling a problem is generally a better solution that reacting, from my personal experience.

There are no simple solutions to complex problems, and sticking our collective heads in the sand and hoping it goes away is not going to solve any of them.
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Re: Taxes & the elections
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2008, 08:48:13 AM »

Wake T F U Bush is not a Democrat . Stop thinking Democrat - Republican. Think about the country as a whole and how do we fix it for the good of all.

1.  Constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget (pay as you go).  This will force those who keep voting for more spending to also go on the record for the increased revenue to pay for it.  No more blaming the other guy for the taxes and fees, or the deficit, while taking credit for the pork and the handouts come election time.

2.  Strict term limits for all elected and appointed positions.  Professional politicians snuggled firmly in bed with the special interests is not a good thing for the average taxpayer.  Throw the bums out and bring in some new bums.  At least it will take awhile for the new guys to figure out where the cookie jar is and how to steal from the rest of us.

3.  Make professional lobbying a crime punishable by death.  Make congressmen actually do their own research and write their own bills (and pay their own way).  Maybe a novel new tradition could be started, where the representative actually gets his input from the folks in his district and not the slick corporate lobbyist looking for favors.

4.  Make civics a mandatory part of school curriculum's, so perhaps the next generations have at least a basic understanding of government and their responsibilities to make it work.  Why do we require immigrants to study this stuff to gain citizenship, but most of our schools no longer teach even the basics to the population as a whole?  Instead of concentrating just on math and science on the yearly step exams, include civics on those exams.  Our schools have abandoned proper education and curricula in their efforts to look good on the required exams.  So let's play their game and  include a requirement for at least a basic knowledge of how our government is supposed to work.

Jerry
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