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[Sean M Cary]

V, Its a good thing you did not look closely at the Oregon Inlet Bridge. Those were not groves in the road.......they were holes.......some the size of softballs

The wind can get thing a little interesting there also

Hogasm, have you ever gone over the Bay Bridge in VA?  Never did it on an MC, but I was towing a u-haul few years back in my truck and I had a death grip on the wheel...not a fan of high bridges. 

I cannot even imagine doing that on a MC.

[ultrafxr]

V, we do have some gooved roads somewhere in Calif. I think.....but I couldn't tell you where.  I don't believe that our route takes us over any.  We're mostly doing two lane roads, not much freeways.  Wind......when I'm doing 80 mph there's 80 mph wind......when I'm doing 110, there's 110 mph winds.   Sorry, couldn't resist.  Yes, we have our areas but again, I don't think we're taking any of those routes.

Sadunbar offered the best advice......when you git the gooved roads, the steel grid bridges or wind the best thing you can do is just stay relaxed and let the bike do it's little jig without fighting it.  Your natural balance instincts will prevail and you'll be fine on the other end.  The biggest mistake that people make is trying to muscle the steering, fighting what balance and counterbalance the motorcycle has to do to keep upright in uneven conditions.  If you do it for long (riding in the wind) and you don't stay relaxed, you'll be very fatigued at the end of the ride.

On this note, I viewed both "Ride Like a Pro V" and "Surviving The Mean Streets" today.  I've been riding since the 70's but there were a couple of new (to me) things in there and a number of things that just "reminded" me of things that I've just kind of forgotten.  I recommend both of these videos to you and to everybody else, too.  He speaks to a number of things like riding in a pack, steering and countersteering, riding in the friction zone, U-turns and a number of other things that a lot of people consider a challenge.  Do yourself a favor and get these videos then practice, practice, practice. 

The only thing that I disagree with in both of these videos.......he talks about if the front or rear wheel lock up in a skid.  In the front, he says to release and reapply right away to free up the locked brake to keep control.  On the rear wheel brake lock up he says to just keep it locked up and you can control the bike.  I totally disagree.  There are to many factors that come into play for the average street rider to be able to keep control of his bike if either wheel locks up.  I say release it and reapply, the same as the front.  Curious what other long term riders (and street racers) will have to say about this?

At typical road speed locking up the rear brake causes the back end to fishtail.  Releasing the rear brake allows the rear wheel to roll and as it regains traction it will snap back into line with the front wheel which is steeting the bike.  resulting in a high side fall which, depending on speed, can be violent enough to eject the rider.  Then the bike comes tumbling in the direction the rider was ejected.  That's why MSF and most others just say to ride it out.  You may lose control but you'll most likely be at a lower speed when that happens and have a low side fall.

I do agree that at times you can release and reapply the rear brake when locked, been there, done that.  It just takes a lot more experience and practice to know when to release and when not too.  In an emergency situation when things happen faster that we can say 'oh chit' it is difficult to sort through all that's going on - hence the 'standard' recommendation to keep the rear locked.

[Sean M Cary]

At typical road speed locking up the rear brake causes the back end to fishtail.  Releasing the rear brake allows the rear wheel to roll and as it regains traction it will snap back into line with the front wheel which is steeting the bike.  resulting in a high side fall which, depending on speed, can be violent enough to eject the rider.  Then the bike comes tumbling in the direction the rider was ejected.  That's why MSF and most others just say to ride it out.  You may lose control but you'll most likely be at a lower speed when that happens and have a low side fall.

I do agree that at times you can release and reapply the rear brake when locked, been there, done that.  It just takes a lot more experience and practice to know when to release and when not too.  In an emergency situation when things happen faster that we can say 'oh chit' it is difficult to sort through all that's going on - hence the 'standard' recommendation to keep the rear locked.

In Ride Like a Pro - he advocates letting up on the locked brake and applying more front once you are straight and level.

Sean

[TheVgirl]

I've rode the Bay Bridge in Maryland on the Vrod.  It has grates on part of it.  I don't like it in a car much less on a motorcycle!  The sportbike riders do it for fun... .

The bridge in Outerbanks was so windy that you felt like you'd be lifted right off it, but on that trip I was recovering from getting t-boned in my z3 and was riding 2-up on the Ultra and never had a clue we were doing 110 across that bridge until Fatboy said something to us on the other side!  

I guess the strange part is on a bike without a fairing, your body is taking most of the force of the wind and you're expecting movement.  On a bike with a fairing, it's somewhat misleading because you don't get the parachute effect and then all of a sudden you get a crosswind and bike feels like a Suburban in a Thunderstorm!  

Ok, enough of my amateur complainings....

Like JC said, "If I ride 80mph, I'll get 80mph winds...."  What I don't like is when I'm riding 80mph on a grooved road, when I get 100mph winds in the opposite direction, it's like riding behind a semi at all times!  It is not unbearable or something I can't handle.  It's just NEW and something I've got to get used to!  Kind of like test-riding the Crossbones....Ewwww!  Was terrified of those mini-apes!!!  When they told me I was going to ride it on the street, I was like, "HUH?"

[TheVgirl]

At typical road speed locking up the rear brake causes the back end to fishtail.  Releasing the rear brake allows the rear wheel to roll and as it regains traction it will snap back into line with the front wheel which is steeting the bike.  resulting in a high side fall which, depending on speed, can be violent enough to eject the rider.  Then the bike comes tumbling in the direction the rider was ejected.  That's why MSF and most others just say to ride it out.  You may lose control but you'll most likely be at a lower speed when that happens and have a low side fall.

That is what they explained to us in class that it is better for you to have a low-side fall than flip up and over the bike ON YOUR HEAD!

I guess I need to order the whole Ride like a Pro series.  Too bad they don't have an actual class!

[Hoist!]

That is what they explained to us in class that it is better for you to have a low-side fall than flip up and over the bike ON YOUR HEAD!

I guess I need to order the whole Ride like a Pro series.  Too bad they don't have an actual class!

They do V! Mark (Ironhorse) is an instructor in LA area for that. There are other locations too. Maybe Mark can chime in with more details. I'd like to get out to his class sometime. Was trying for this year but not gonna happen. Maybe next year! But I'd like to take that class! You can never practice too much on a motorcycle!

Hoist!

[Fired00d]

  Too bad they don't have a smiley for a smart@$$!

There is one for wiseguy -

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[grc]

Now we know why they invented ABS all those years ago.  Since the average human doesn't go out and practice panic stops, and by the very nature of the situations that lead to panic stops there isn't time to analyze the situation, the typical rider/driver just nails that brake pedal, locks up the tire(s), stares at the object creating the need for a rapid stop, and winds up going straight into the object.  

I think I'd go with ultrafxr's opinion on the rear end slide situation.  If you lock up the rear but maintain a straight ahead slide, release and reapply works.  But if you get a rapid skid to one side and then release, the most common result will be a violent ejection.  Much better to take a low side crash (the infamous "lay it down" method) versus having your body launched in the air to land who knows where.  BTW, "laying it down" is all too often the first approach, and it should always be the last.  You can't steer too well with the bike laying on it's side, and a properly applied set of brakes will usually stop you faster than the friction caused by grinding off the side of your bike.  Once you lay it down, you have absolutely zero control of anything.

Another thing that has gotten to me in cars, and will now also apply more and more often to bikes, is the idea brought up by nashalynn.  When you've spent your life using the release and reapply method to control skids, how do you make sure you don't release when you have a vehicle with ABS?  I had a terrible time retraining my feeble brain when ABS was introduced in cars, and finally had to go out in slick parking lots to practice holding the pedal down and not backing off.  And that brings up another thought, what do you do when some of the vehicles you drive have ABS and others do not?  You don't have a lot of time to remember which technique to use in a typical panic stop situation.

Oh well, the best defense is still awareness of your surroundings and proactively avoiding taking potentially dangerous positions.  For example, stay out of peoples blind spots, train your eyes well out in front and to the sides and not just on the guy ahead of you, automatically assume the person in that car or truck doesn't see you, etc.  And practicing stops in an abandoned parking lot is still a great idea, even if you have ABS.

Jerry

[Screamin]

Now we know why they invented ABS all those years ago.  Since the average human doesn't go out and practice panic stops, and by the very nature of the situations that lead to panic stops there isn't time to analyze the situation, the typical rider/driver just nails that brake pedal, locks up the tire(s), stares at the object creating the need for a rapid stop, and winds up going straight into the object. 

I think I'd go with ultrafxr's opinion on the rear end slide situation.  If you lock up the rear but maintain a straight ahead slide, release and reapply works.  But if you get a rapid skid to one side and then release, the most common result will be a violent ejection.  Much better to take a low side crash (the infamous "lay it down" method) versus having your body launched in the air to land who knows where.  BTW, "laying it down" is all too often the first approach, and it should always be the last.  You can't steer too well with the bike laying on it's side, and a properly applied set of brakes will usually stop you faster than the friction caused by grinding off the side of your bike.  Once you lay it down, you have absolutely zero control of anything.

Another thing that has gotten to me in cars, and will now also apply more and more often to bikes, is the idea brought up by nashalynn.  When you've spent your life using the release and reapply method to control skids, how do you make sure you don't release when you have a vehicle with ABS?  I had a terrible time retraining my feeble brain when ABS was introduced in cars, and finally had to go out in slick parking lots to practice holding the pedal down and not backing off.  And that brings up another thought, what do you do when some of the vehicles you drive have ABS and others do not?  You don't have a lot of time to remember which technique to use in a typical panic stop situation.

Oh well, the best defense is still awareness of your surroundings and proactively avoiding taking potentially dangerous positions.  For example, stay out of peoples blind spots, train your eyes well out in front and to the sides and not just on the guy ahead of you, automatically assume the person in that car or truck doesn't see you, etc.  And practicing stops in an abandoned parking lot is still a great idea, even if you have ABS.

Jerry

Exactly. Excellent post Jerry.

[TheVgirl]

Another thing that has gotten to me in cars, and will now also apply more and more often to bikes, is the idea brought up by nashalynn.  When you've spent your life using the release and reapply method to control skids, how do you make sure you don't release when you have a vehicle with ABS?  I had a terrible time retraining my feeble brain when ABS was introduced in cars, and finally had to go out in slick parking lots to practice holding the pedal down and not backing off.  And that brings up another thought, what do you do when some of the vehicles you drive have ABS and others do not?  You don't have a lot of time to remember which technique to use in a typical panic stop situation.

Oh well, the best defense is still awareness of your surroundings and proactively avoiding taking potentially dangerous positions.  For example, stay out of peoples blind spots, train your eyes well out in front and to the sides and not just on the guy ahead of you, automatically assume the person in that car or truck doesn't see you, etc.  And practicing stops in an abandoned parking lot is still a great idea, even if you have ABS.

Jerry

Personally, I don't trust ABS.  I had a Suburban where it malfunctioned and it was a really eery feeling.  I didn't know what to do.  My first instinct was to pump the brakes, but I just held them and the ABS light came on and the brakes locked and we started skidding.  Sold the Suburban to my divorce attorney right after that!  Heck, my first car was a 1968 Plymouth Fury III (lovingly referred to as the Bismarck).  You couldn't stop the Bismarck quickly without pumping the brakes.

Shoot, down here, you don't have to practice quick stops in a parking lot!  Go to your local gas station.  Idiots will practically run over you to get to a pump and they seem to think it's easier for a motorcycle to look out for a car than for them to look out for a motorcycle - even a bright freaking yellow big bird one!!!!! 

[porthole]

Had new Metzlers on it when I bought it! 

Well you are ahead of the game then compared to the dunflops

[TheVgirl]

They do V! Mark (Ironhorse) is an instructor in LA area for that. There are other locations too. Maybe Mark can chime in with more details. I'd like to get out to his class sometime. Was trying for this year but not gonna happen. Maybe next year! But I'd like to take that class! You can never practice too much on a motorcycle!

Hoist!

Really?  When I saw their demo in Atlanta a few years ago, I thought Dr. Donna told me it was only a video series!!!  That would be fantastic!!  Ironhorse, got any leads??

[TheVgirl]

Well you are ahead of the game then compared to the dunflops

That's good to know!  Seems I got a pretty good deal after all...

[TheVgirl]

V, Its a good thing you did not look closely at the Oregon Inlet Bridge. Those were not groves in the road.......they were holes.......some the size of softballs

The wind can get thing a little interesting there also

I was just taking pictures, having a good time, and didn't have a clue.  I do remember thinking...I'm glad I'm not riding this on my bike!  Sometime it's great when you're a passenger!  (Or maybe it was the painkillers...that was less than a week after my car crash.)  I think that was the 1st Annual OBX Bike Week.

[Sean M Cary]

That is what they explained to us in class that it is better for you to have a low-side fall than flip up and over the bike ON YOUR HEAD!

I guess I need to order the whole Ride like a Pro series.  Too bad they don't have an actual class!

they do