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[FNGw/08SERK]

Twolane you deserve credit for the long shot call.........nobody really had her on the short list
I was hoping she was....but was sure she was not on the list

Think he had the inside scoop        

[Grizzly]

Is McCann someones new female running mate?  Haven't heard of her yet???

[BIGDOG]

I'm tired of hearing about President Bush, and I don't really care about your opinion of President Bush.... he is not running for re-election.

For those that have not noticed, we have John McCain (Rep) running against Barack Obama (Dem).  Neither of these men are GW Bush.

The information below should help ANYONE decide who will be the best president for these United States.  If you agree with facts below about either candidate, then vote for him in November.  May the best man win.



2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS ISSUE

 
Favors new drilling offshore US
McCain:   Yes
OBama:   No
 
Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it
McCain:   Yes
Obama:   No
 

Served in the US Armed Forces
McCain:   Yes
Obama:   No
 
Amount of time served in the US Senate
McCain:  22 YEARS
Obama:  173 DAYS
 
Will institute a socialized national health care plan
McCain:   No
Obama:   Yes
 
Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy
McCain:  No
Obama:  Yes
 
Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately
McCain:  No
Obama:  Yes
 
Supports gun ownership rights
McCain:   Yes
Obama:   No
 
Supports homosexual marriage
McCain:   No
Obama:   Yes
 
Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase
McCain:  No
Obama:  Yes
 
Voted against making English the official language
McCain:  No
Obama:  Yes
 
Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals
McCain:  No
Obama:  Yes
 
CAPITAL GAINS TAX
 
MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.
 
OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales.  (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)
 
DIVIDEND TAX
 
MCCAIN
 15% (no change)
 
OBAMA
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')
 
INCOME TAX
 
MCCAIN

(no changes)
 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
 
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
 Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!
 
INHERITANCE TAX
 
MCCAIN
 - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)
 
OBAMA
Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.
 
NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA
 
New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.  New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)  New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!
 
 
 
You can verify the above at the following web sites:


http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/

 

If I were a Republican I would not want to talk about G W Bush eather. As for your list I ask you if you could use a broader brush. I went and read you references and I challenge others to do the same. Every point you use is qualified with reasonable idea's. Example : there is an Inheritance tax now so it would not be new, As for abortion Obama does not accept abortion at any point there are limits McCain wants no abortion period, Gun ownership Obama is not against ownership he wants some limits on it ,Taxes , we are going to need to raise them thanks to the guy you don't want to talk about, all you points are taken from a very narrow view ,look at the whole story and then report it.

[Keats]

We'll make some noise in late November, promise!!

Can you imagine what the left will be like after losing a 3rd election in a row......they will be on suicide watch.............


this is going to be fun........

left blog sites are already humming with their sexist innuendo

It must be "hard to be blue"  (actually green according to Kermit)

[vagabond6542]

I'm sorry for coming into the rhetoric at this time, but I couldn't resist.
First off, the Dem's gave us the "Great Society", remember LBJ's Welfare Program? We are still trying to reduce the governmental out go to the supposedly needed people of the USA.
In all the years of my life, I can sum up the Republicans and the Democrats.
If you want a war, tax reform and somewhat a balance budget, get a Republican.
If you want a prosperous great society and little to back it, get a Democrat.
IF anyone has questions on what I'm saying, go over the History books for the last 60 plus years.
It's your vote on which direction this country will take, BUT VOTE.

I wrote this a few posts back, and it seems that some of you are saying it a different way, but the same ideas. Granted GW Bush went the wrong way as a Republican, and caused a lot of the grief that the USA is dealing with, But do you think we need a Democrat in the Pilot's Seat now??  Think again. When I mentioned LBJ's Great Society Plan, I lived through that.  I didn't benefit from it, but I paid for it.  Go elect Obama, and enjoy my past experience of his proposals as I did LBJ's.  You will only do it once.
I think McCain picked well for a Vice President, if he can't come up to muster, she will. The pair could very well save our A$$ in the near future.
It is always the voters decision, VOTE.

[Twolanerider]

Again I am reminded of the Cuban Missile Crisis , thoughtfull diplomacy and a great poker face won over a  quick draw show them whose  boss attitude.

I'm always and repeatedly surprised by the historical take on the Cuban Crisis.  Consider the before and after. 

Before: The Soviets had no strategic presence in Cuba nor any significant tactical presence. 

After: The Soviets had no strategic presence in Cuba, we'd acquiesced to a nascent tactical non-nuclear presence, we'd (quietly) given up rights to the placement of Jupiters in Turkey (and by implication other systems elsewhere) and we'd effectively allowed a check on the Monroe Doctrine.

It was an awfully expensive "win" for the Kennedy administration.  Western historiography on this event has always been interesting.  That shortly after the abject defeat of the Bay of Pigs we just couldn't stomach the crisis to be perceived as only the expensive stalemate it was.

I have to Muse over the defence of Palin as a running mate.

Muse if you must.  Most so far (at least from me) has not been a defense.  Have instead said there are pros and cons while discussing both.  It is an interesting choice that alters the dynamic in ways most did not expect.  But we don't know yet how she'll fair on the national stage.

I will readily admit one thing that I would later be uncomfortable with about the choice should the GOP win the election.  She would almost certainly be a closeted VP; at least for quite awhile.  No DC experience nor presence will mean almost no input on White House staff.  No staff on your side means you're left out. 

Cabinet officers rarely defer to VPs even when they're heavy hitters in their own right.  She'll have trouble crossing the 50 yard line to be able to play in the West Wing and will likely live in the OEOB.  It may be necessary with some personalities in the Pres and VP jobs.  But I still see ceremonial Vice Presidents as a significant waste.

[Twolanerider]

We should only send our citizens in harm's way, only when our country is attacked.

Have to be careful with such definition's of threat and national interest.  With that definition in mind we would have only been to war against the British twice, though we would have attacked Libya.  It just would have been against the Tripolitan pirates during the Jefferson Administration.  We would have fought Japan in the Pacific in the 1940s.  Of course we would have done so without bases on Guam, Midway, the PI and elsewhere. 

WWI would have drug on to stalemate that would have left Europe weakened and even more vulnurable to Stalin in the still likely second war.  Most of Europe would have been Soviet.  Containment would not have been possible and the hegemony would have spread.  Today's radicalized mid east would not be the threat to us that is now, of course, because that Soviet hegemony of Europe would have as water rolling downhill spread through the oil rich Gulf states as well; to our further detriment.

The southwestern US would still be part of Mexico and, I suppose, other western Indian and Cherokee and Chippewa southeastern areas would also not be part of the Union.  Daniel Shays would have been put down though.  So there would at least have eventually been a United States up to and abutting most of the Mississippi river .

[Twolanerider]

Twolane you deserve credit for the long shot call.........nobody really had her on the short list
I was hoping she was....but was sure she was not on the list

Thanks .

I did win the pool on that one.  Just a gut call.  Had followed the career a little since the gubernatorial race up there and just had this "feeling" of kindred spirits between she and McCain.

Damn near everyone won the pool on Obama's choice though.  So, sadly, no $$$ there . 

I had to change my pick on that ticket from Governor Sebelius about three weeks prior.  Still think she'd have been a better match for that ticket than Biden (full disclosure requires admitting I'm not a Joe Biden fan).  In the end it became too obvious Senator Obama had decided he wanted someone to cover his perceived deficiencies rather than complement his perceived strengths.  Also, as a "young" Senator it was probably just harder for him not to pick another Senator than it would have been for McCain.  That place is the ultimate of "boys clubs" and they nearly always pick from their own when a Senator takes a nomination.

[kojak]

Have to be careful with such definition's of threat and national interest.  With that definition in mind we would have only been to war against the British twice, though we would have attacked Libya.  It just would have been against the Tripolitan pirates during the Jefferson Administration.  We would have fought Japan in the Pacific in the 1940s.  Of course we would have done so without bases on Guam, Midway, the PI and elsewhere. 

WWI would have drug on to stalemate that would have left Europe weakened and even more vulnurable to Stalin in the still likely second war.  Most of Europe would have been Soviet.  Containment would not have been possible and the hegemony would have spread.  Today's radicalized mid east would not be the threat to us that is now, of course, because that Soviet hegemony of Europe would have as water rolling downhill spread through the oil rich Gulf states as well; to our further detriment.

The southwestern US would still be part of Mexico and, I suppose, other western Indian and Cherokee and Chippewa southeastern areas would also not be part of the Union.  Daniel Shays would have been put down though.  So there would at least have eventually been a United States up to and abutting most of the Mississippi river .

Dude, come on. there is no fantasy that could have justified invading Iraq. Cheney and Bush got bad advice, got rid of the people that gave them good advice and listened to a scumbag called Ahmed Chalabi who told them Iraq would be a walk in the garden once we got rid of Saddam.

[kojak]

Can you imagine what the left will be like after losing a 3rd election in a row......they will be on suicide watch.............


this is going to be fun........

left blog sites are already humming with their sexist innuendo

It must be "hard to be blue"  (actually green according to Kermit)

I am an American first, foremost and always. I'm surprised and pleased that 20% of the members on this thread support Obama. Considering HD owners are around 48 years old, predominantly white, male and make incomes over $70k, I understand the other point of view. 35 years ago, I was in a bad situation without a job, home, food, car. Kindness of strangers and hard work got me way beyond what I could have dreamt possible. Future of this country is most important to me, maybe all of us who are more fortunate today than others shouldnt mind making some sacrifices to get our country right again. IMHO.

[vagabond6542]

I am an American first, foremost and always. I'm surprised and pleased that 20% of the members on this thread support Obama. Considering HD owners are around 48 years old, predominantly white, male and make incomes over $70k, I understand the other point of view. 35 years ago, I was in a bad situation without a job, home, food, car. Kindness of strangers and hard work got me way beyond what I could have dreamt possible. Future of this country is most important to me, maybe all of us who are more fortunate today than others shouldnt mind making some sacrifices to get our country right again. IMHO.

Would you call uping the tax structure to Obama's level the proper sacrifices?
In our country's history, I haven't recalled any broad tax reduction once they have been initiated.
So my next question. How long do you wish to live with that?

Old saying:  Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it. But is it what you wished?

Just some thoughts from an ole fart.

[Twolanerider]

Dude, come on. there is no fantasy that could have justified invading Iraq. Cheney and Bush got bad advice, got rid of the people that gave them good advice and listened to a scumbag called Ahmed Chalabi who told them Iraq would be a walk in the garden once we got rid of Saddam.

There was a remark that use of military force should always be reactive.  In a rather tongue in cheek fashion I suggested that prudence, good sense and history might inform us otherwise. 

There was no mention of the second Persian Gulf war.  Refuting a point by intuiting in to it suggestions never made within it is, while a nice attempt at misdirection, not a terribly effective tactic; dude.

[kojak]

Would you call uping the tax structure to Obama's level the proper sacrifices?
In our country's history, I haven't recalled any broad tax reduction once they have been initiated.
So my next question. How long do you wish to live with that?

Old saying:  Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it. But is it what you wished?

Just some thoughts from an ole fart.

We are going to have to do both. Cut spending and top 5 % pay more taxes. Otherwise the chinese and the arabs will keep owning more of our country. They really dont ever have to take any military action against the US, just dump the trillions of US $ denominated securities they own and complete wreck our economy and other western countries. Thats a bigger threat to our way of life than any pissant terrorist out there.

[vagabond6542]

We are going to have to do both. Cut spending and top 5 % pay more taxes. Otherwise the chinese and the arabs will keep owning more of our country. They really dont ever have to take any military action against the US, just dump the trillions of US $ denominated securities they own and complete wreck our economy and other western countries. Thats a bigger threat to our way of life than any pissant terrorist out there.

Well......it is unfortunate to say this, but the American way of doing business has gotten the US into this dilemma. What I'm saying is every business tactic is suppose to improve the bottomline, net profit. All other aspects are not considered. So if you give away the "Store", ie, technology, manufacturing, cheaper goods, etc., Don't blame the Government, blame the CEOs of companies that are global now. And the real biggie is, there isn't a in force Global Government to call the shots. Go figure.

[BIGDOG]

Have to be careful with such definition's of threat and national interest.  With that definition in mind we would have only been to war against the British twice, though we would have attacked Libya.  It just would have been against the Tripolitan pirates during the Jefferson Administration.  We would have fought Japan in the Pacific in the 1940s.  Of course we would have done so without bases on Guam, Midway, the PI and elsewhere. 

WWI would have drug on to stalemate that would have left Europe weakened and even more vulnurable to Stalin in the still likely second war.  Most of Europe would have been Soviet.  Containment would not have been possible and the hegemony would have spread.  Today's radicalized mid east would not be the threat to us that is now, of course, because that Soviet hegemony of Europe would have as water rolling downhill spread through the oil rich Gulf states as well; to our further detriment.

The southwestern US would still be part of Mexico and, I suppose, other western Indian and Cherokee and Chippewa southeastern areas would also not be part of the Union.  Daniel Shays would have been put down though.  So there would at least have eventually been a United States up to and abutting most of the Mississippi river .

I appreciate and respect your opinions but I have to say that the Cuban Missile Crisis was the closest our country has ever come to all out nuclear war. If it had not been for restraint and diplomacy we might not be having these discussions.
As for the choice of Palin for VP , I think McCain believes women will vote for him because of her. I think women are much smarter than that and may backlash do to his cavalier attitude. One other thought you may want to ponder , if the 72 year old McCain does not make it through his term she would become Precedent. With ALL her experience wouldn't that be great. Again McCain shows poor judgment in his planning.
Please understand I don't care for ether candidate but McCain would be my least favorate. [Now there is a suprise]