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[Twolanerider]

I appreciate and respect your opinions but I have to say that the Cuban Missile Crisis was the closest our country has ever come to all out nuclear war. If it had not been for restraint and diplomacy we might not be having these discussions.

BD, there is absolutely no doubt that the base fact that in the end nothing happened made Cuba a "win."  Absolutely no debate. 

We didn't know at the time that local authority for nuclear release had been granted from Moscow to Soviet commanders on the ground.  Had we landed it is all too possible they would have used something.  The ramifications therefrom could have been somewhere between only barely comprehensible and apocryphal.

The incident is ususally measured historically, however, in the context of "who won" short of war.  In that context the incident started with us holding three aces and the Soviets holding an ace high.  They shipped in a joker for a pair and Khruschev knew he was bluffing.  In the end we gave them another joker to allow the perception of a split pot while we quietly let them take the next two antes just for showing up.

As for the choice of Palin for VP , I think McCain believes women will vote for him because of her.

Everyone right now is assuming she is either an amazing choice gifted by bravery and insight on the part of McCain or she's a terrible choice gifted by pandering and senility on his part.  The truth is neither; yet.  It's one of those times when we have to admit we don't know what we don't know.  And what we don't know is just about everything.

This isn't the GOP leadership's first rodeo.  They know how to vet a prospective candidate.  Even though McCain doesn't always take senior party advice too well there had to be something that intelligent people saw to make the choice seem viable.  And it has to be more than just picking up undecided women.

Truth be told VP's that have ascended to the Presidency have a very mixed record; and that's being generous.  Who can remember anything about John Tyler, Millard Fillmore, Andrew Johnson (except that he was impeached), Chester Arthur or Cal Coolidge?  LBJ gave his heart and soul to the office and has a mixed legacy; at best.  Teddy Roosevelt and Harry Truman are the only Vice Presidents who ascended the Presidency on the death of their former and are seen mostly well in the historical lens.  Yet Truman barely won his own election against Dewey and TR couldn't win when he tried again under the Bull Moose banner.  So even contemporaries had significant doubts.  For that matter a lot of Presidents who got in on their own didn't have much of a record.

Palin may burst from the bloom and be the rock star that some seem to expect.  She may be the death of the campaign.  More likely she'll be a somewhere very much in between.  If we're honest, however, the only thing we know for sure right now is that we don't know.

[vagabond6542]

BD, there is absolutely no doubt that the base fact that in the end nothing happened made Cuba a "win."  Absolutely no debate. 

We didn't know at the time that local authority for nuclear release had been granted from Moscow to Soviet commanders on the ground.  Had we landed it is all too possible they would have used something.  The ramifications therefrom could have been somewhere between only barely comprehensible and apocryphal.

The incident is ususally measured historically, however, in the context of "who won" short of war.  In that context the incident started with us holding three aces and the Soviets holding an ace high.  They shipped in a joker for a pair and Khruschev knew he was bluffing.  In the end we gave them another joker to allow the perception of a split pot while we quietly let them take the next two antes just for showing up.


Everyone right now is assuming she is either an amazing choice gifted by bravery and insight on the part of McCain or she's a terrible choice gifted by pandering and senility on his part.  The truth is neither; yet.  It's one of those times when we have to admit we don't know what we don't know.  And what we don't know is just about everything.

This isn't the GOP leadership's first rodeo.  They know how to vet a prospective candidate.  Even though McCain doesn't always take senior party advice too well there had to be something that intelligent people saw to make the choice seem viable.  And it has to be more than just picking up undecided women.

Truth be told VP's that have ascended to the Presidency have a very mixed record; and that's being generous.  Who can remember anything about John Tyler, Millard Fillmore, Andrew Johnson (except that he was impeached), Chester Arthur or Cal Coolidge?  LBJ gave his heart and soul to the office and has a mixed legacy; at best.  Teddy Roosevelt and Harry Truman are the only Vice Presidents who ascended the Presidency on the death of their former and are seen mostly well in the historical lens.  Yet Truman barely won his own election against Dewey and TR couldn't win when he tried again under the Bull Moose banner.  So even contemporaries had significant doubts.  For that matter a lot of Presidents who got in on their own didn't have much of a record.

Palin may burst from the bloom and be the rock star that some seem to expect.  She may be the death of the campaign.  More likely she'll be a somewhere very much in between.  If we're honest, however, the only thing we know for sure right now is that we don't know.

TwoLaneRider,
I like the way you are able to call out the history of our past in dealing with our adversaries and how we may not know until at least a year away how the VP will fair should McCain win the Pilot's Seat. Your perspective is very valuable. But what is your take on the other side of the aisle? OBama and Biden.

[Twolanerider]

TwoLaneRider,
I like the way you are able to call out the history of our past in dealing with our adversaries and how we may not know until at least a year away how the VP will fair should McCain win the Pilot's Seat. Your perspective is very valuable. But what is your take on the other side of the aisle? OBama and Biden.

George, as mentioned previously full disclosure requires admitting I'm not a Joe Biden fan.  Have never found him to be the brightest bulb in the pack.  Have often felt if he didn't have staff to write for him he'd sound unfortunately under-informed all too often. One of the many faux foreign/security policy "specialists" in the legislature because it's easier for them to sound informed in that arena where they can do so while only knowing broad generalities.  He also confuses recall of fact with understanding and analysis of that information.

Plagiarizing Neil Kinnock's speech to use as his own a few years ago was stupid, but in hindsight not a huge surprise.  He's also wanted to be President so bad for so long he'd trade his left nut for the nomination and then his right one for the job.  Trouble is he always crashed and burned running nationally when doing it on his own.  He also likes to hear himself talk; and talk and talk and talk.  He talks more than I write.....

He's arrogant, a poor interogator when taking testimony in the Senate without realizing that he is  and just generally lax when generality needs to transcend to detail.

His choice as a VP candidate for Senator Obama, however, seemed to suggest (at least to me) that someone thought the GOP's regular attacks on "experience" were hitting home.  Rather than choose a VP candidate to complement his percieved strengths of "change" and vigor and intelligence he chose someone to contrast from his perceived weaknesses by choosing a Senate lifer who made what bones he's got on foreign affairs committees and Judiciary.

Obama picked a VP choice to run with him who was all the things he was not.  Then, a little ironically, a week later McCain did exactly the same thing.

[kojak]

Well......it is unfortunate to say this, but the American way of doing business has gotten the US into this dilemma. What I'm saying is every business tactic is suppose to improve the bottomline, net profit. All other aspects are not considered. So if you give away the "Store", ie, technology, manufacturing, cheaper goods, etc., Don't blame the Government, blame the CEOs of companies that are global now. And the real biggie is, there isn't a in force Global Government to call the shots. Go figure.

Some truth to what you say for sure!

[BIGDOG]

Twolanerider
I think your analysis of the Palin nomination is pretty good , we don't know what her nomination will do ,but she has shown that she really isn't ready for prime time, ie her speech suggesting she is the answer to the Democrats not nominating Hillery and her telling the press someone should tell her just what a VP does.
Just one more thing on a historical note, I know for a fact that at least one nuclear missile base in Montana had silos opened and missiles readied awaiting launch codes .My take would be that if one base was readied many many more were also.

[vagabond6542]

Twolanerider
I think your analysis of the Palin nomination is pretty good , we don't know what her nomination will do ,but she has shown that she really isn't ready for prime time, ie her speech suggesting she is the answer to the Democrats not nominating Hillery and her telling the press someone should tell her just what a VP does.
Just one more thing on a historical note, I know for a fact that at least one nuclear missile base in Montana had silos opened and missiles readied awaiting launch codes .My take would be that if one base was readied many many more were also.

BIGDOG,
I remember that incident well also, but from a Naval aspect. I was on a DDG, a new ship of the times, slated to go to the Gulf out of San Diego.  We never went. Was on board the same ship when JFK was assassinated.
Memories of being young.

[Twolanerider]

Twolanerider
I think your analysis of the Palin nomination is pretty good , we don't know what her nomination will do ,but she has shown that she really isn't ready for prime time, ie her speech suggesting she is the answer to the Democrats not nominating Hillery and her telling the press someone should tell her just what a VP does.

BD, when she said that I thought she was making a small joke.  Quite some time ago Al Gore got some cute press for about 36 hours making a similar crack.  It was seen as tongue-in-cheek at the time.  Maybe, maybe not; but I thought it was a little self-deprecating jab at her own interesting position and a bit of a jab at the competition at the same time.

Even if not she wouldn't be the first VP or VP candidate to make a similar remark.  The job just isn't ever the same.  It's whatever the President decides it's going to be.  And since she doesn't know McCain and they'd only ever spoken of her as a prospect once before the announcement it's a good bet that no one (even McCain) really knows yet what a Palin vice presidency might constitute.

As for being an "answer" to Hillary supporters; it depends on which ones.  There were many core Democrats.  They're of course not changing a thing.  According to poll data there are a surprising number of women undecideds.  To them she very well could be a different answer to whatever questions they've been asking.  Whether or not that remarks resonates with you depends on which audience you're in.  You and I, however, are the wrong gender for it to really resonate with either of us.  We have to consider the audience it's intended for before we judge the remark.

[vagabond6542]

BD, when she said that I thought she was making a small joke.  Quite some time ago Al Gore got some cute press for about 36 hours making a similar crack.  It was seen as tongue-in-cheek at the time.  Maybe, maybe not; but I thought it was a little self-deprecating jab at her own interesting position and a bit of a jab at the competition at the same time.

Even if not she wouldn't be the first VP or VP candidate to make a similar remark.  The job just isn't ever the same.  It's whatever the President decides it's going to be.  And since she doesn't know McCain and they'd only ever spoken of her as a prospect once before the announcement it's a good bet that no one (even McCain) really knows yet what a Palin vice presidency might constitute.

As for being an "answer" to Hillary supporters; it depends on which ones.  There were many core Democrats.  They're of course not changing a thing.  According to poll data there are a surprising number of women undecideds.  To them she very could be a different answer to whatever questions they've been asking.  Whether or not that remarks resonates with you depends on which audience you're in.  You and I, however, are the wrong gender for it to really resonate with either of us.  We have to consider the audience it's intended for before we judge the remark.

A very astute observation, But then if McCain gives her the control of the VP office. We could probably see another Alaska. Wouldn't that be interesting, and I wouldn't mind die laughing.  Turn about is fair play.

[Twolanerider]

A very astute observation, But then if McCain gives her the control of the VP office. We could probably see another Alaska. Wouldn't that be interesting, and I wouldn't mind die laughing.  Turn about is fair play.

In her gubernatorial office she's got a (real) bear skin from a (real) hunt.  Hanging that in the VP's office ought to bring the Second Amendment and sportsmen's group in good stead with the White House.

[miker]

Massive pandering to masses now full tilt by both "parties" because there are only two both which are kinda the same to my untrained ill-edumacated brain..

How about Bama/Palin ticket.


I swear...

[FNGw/08SERK]

Massive pandering to masses now full tilt by both "parties" because there are only two both which are kinda the same to my untrained ill-edumacated brain..

How about Bama/Palin ticket.


I swear...

...... history always repeats  Nothing new here 

[Ditch]

WOW!!! Never thought I would see that much of a gap between the two. Pleasantly surprised!!!!!

[VAZHOG]

Amen, bro! 

The man who gave Bush the excuse to start the "War on Terror" still remains at large, living in God knows what/where, and we are stuck in a quagmire with no honorable end in sight for the brave Americans who risked their lives (and their family's...that is another sickening story) and limbs to fight an unworkable war...exactly like Vietnam, only in sand instead of jungle.

That would be the folks who crashed the planes into the World trade center, They are no longer at large as well as most of the folks who enabled them to be here, because of the information gained on the battle feild of Iraq.

[VAZHOG]

So you think an investment by the government to help people (like ME) get a better education who cannot otherwise afford it is a BAD thing?  Get your head out of the sand.  The return on that investment is astronomical.

In red:  Barring some asshole Christian Repulican who grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth "downsizing" you because you don't kiss his ass every time he wants you to, but only try and do the right thing, whether it's politically correct or not.

What reality are you living in?  Way the f...k different than mine, I can assure you.

NO, But that would be a program to enable citizen's to improve there lot in life, If your only skill set is to work for a "Sliver spoon" then you need another enabler program to enhance your education to find a better job or skill set, You may check with your state unemployment angency for the correct program and training that you may need.

We have enough programs in place just like taxes and me don't more of it.

The more you pay for something the more you get of it. Example Extended unemployment benifits , If you can't find a job in 13 weeks, you need to relocate to where the jobs are instead of waiting for another silver spoon to provide them for you.

[miker]

Don, if you going to keep posting to this thread with your reasonable views voiced with some alacrity, I will prolly start ignoring this thread...Unless some Plain photos start showing up..


Bless us all, we need it...