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[popper]

The new map from Springer sounds interesting. How does one get this map? I have an 08 FLHRSE4 with Rineharts, Big sucker and SERT. Thanks

[ox666]

Just a quick follow up:
I've tried many times and it appears that the problem is related to the rear cylinder shut down at full stop.  If I stop and then try to move within a few seconds, then it's fine with no hesitation.  However if I stop and wait for about 20-30 seconds, then I get the hesitation.  I have tried to disable the rear cylinder shut down by moving the throttle forward in idle, but it didn't work.  I know for fact the heat is not an issue with my bike.  It's been re-mapped. 

Let me know what you think or see if you can do this test.

Fred   

I had that experience the other day for the first time - rear cylinder shut down and I put it down to stop start stop start and overheating.  I've never had the rear cylinder shut down at full stop before.  Like you, I tried rolling the throttle forward but it achieved diddly squat.  I haven't had mine re-mapped and just assumed heat.  I seem to be experiencing the same problems.  Short stop and continue, no problem.  The longer the stop the less responsive in first.

[eddfive]

  The lag is just throttle lag that is programmed in to the DBW Harleys.  The interesting thing is that the TPS throttle lag up to 3000 rpm is easily seen in a data run.  The even more interesting thing is while the TPS is lagging a bit the MAP value still climbs steeply to 100%, so this means there is no more to get.  The DBW bikes I tune I need to spend a lot of time in the 5% and 7% throttle area to get the AFR values right.  Lean in this area really adds to the TPS lag feeling. Another important factor off idle is the ACCEL table.  The stock downloads have too much fuel pulsed in this table which also adds to a "boggy" throttle.    The Newest SEST(pro-tuner) from Harley has a table in it called Throttle Porgresstivity.  I tuned a 2008 CVO Ultra last night, adjusted this table so there is no lag, adjusted the 5% and 7% area as well as took most of the ACCEL fuel out and the bike is crisp and sharp when you blip the throttle.  This is just one of those tuning details that need to be addressed by the tuner.  DBW is here to stay and they can be adjusted to have no TPS lag and with or without the newest version of SEST.  Tuning is in the quality level the tuner is trying to achieve and a lot more than just an AFR tune.  This also points to the fact the the addon tuning systems will never get this issue resolved, all they can do is fuel and maybe some limited ignition and can not touch the tables I mentioned.

[LRebel]

  The lag is just throttle lag that is programmed in to the DBW Harleys.  The interesting thing is that the TPS throttle lag up to 3000 rpm is easily seen in a data run.  The even more interesting thing is while the TPS is lagging a bit the MAP value still climbs steeply to 100%, so this means there is no more to get.  The DBW bikes I tune I need to spend a lot of time in the 5% and 7% throttle area to get the AFR values right.  Lean in this area really adds to the TPS lag feeling. Another important factor off idle is the ACCEL table.  The stock downloads have too much fuel pulsed in this table which also adds to a "boggy" throttle.    The Newest SEST(pro-tuner) from Harley has a table in it called Throttle Porgresstivity.  I tuned a 2008 CVO Ultra last night, adjusted this table so there is no lag, adjusted the 5% and 7% area as well as took most of the ACCEL fuel out and the bike is crisp and sharp when you blip the throttle.  This is just one of those tuning details that need to be addressed by the tuner.  DBW is here to stay and they can be adjusted to have no TPS lag and with or without the newest version of SEST.  Tuning is in the quality level the tuner is trying to achieve and a lot more than just an AFR tune.  This also points to the fact the the addon tuning systems will never get this issue resolved, all they can do is fuel and maybe some limited ignition and can not touch the tables I mentioned.

Eddfive,

Welcome to CVO Harley!  Good to have someone here that knows his stuff when it comes to tuning.  So where are you located?  Lots of folks here would like to know of a good tuner in their area.

Also, you will want to post in the "New Member Introduction" so everyone can get to know you 

[grc]

Just read this in another thread concerning the dead spot.  As suspected, it is a result of Harley's attempt to fix a previous problem.  You all remember the hanging high idle problem many had initially?  H-D changed the calibration to eliminate that, and in the process they introduced a lag/dead band.  Read Tech Tip 380 for a full description:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=26219.msg439945#msg439945

Jerry

[hunter]

  The lag is just throttle lag that is programmed in to the DBW Harleys.  The interesting thing is that the TPS throttle lag up to 3000 rpm is easily seen in a data run.  The even more interesting thing is while the TPS is lagging a bit the MAP value still climbs steeply to 100%, so this means there is no more to get.  The DBW bikes I tune I need to spend a lot of time in the 5% and 7% throttle area to get the AFR values right.  Lean in this area really adds to the TPS lag feeling. Another important factor off idle is the ACCEL table.  The stock downloads have too much fuel pulsed in this table which also adds to a "boggy" throttle.    The Newest SEST(pro-tuner) from Harley has a table in it called Throttle Porgresstivity.  I tuned a 2008 CVO Ultra last night, adjusted this table so there is no lag, adjusted the 5% and 7% area as well as took most of the ACCEL fuel out and the bike is crisp and sharp when you blip the throttle.  This is just one of those tuning details that need to be addressed by the tuner.  DBW is here to stay and they can be adjusted to have no TPS lag and with or without the newest version of SEST.  Tuning is in the quality level the tuner is trying to achieve and a lot more than just an AFR tune.  This also points to the fact the the addon tuning systems will never get this issue resolved, all they can do is fuel and maybe some limited ignition and can not touch the tables I mentioned.

eddfive welcome aboard from NJ. 
Thanks for the info.

 

[08roadkingse]

I'd be interested in knowing where Eddfive is too; good tuners are hard to find.

My bud has the same bike as me (FLHRSE4) and had had all kinds of trouble. He dropped it on a trip to key west when the the flatspot in the throttle bit him in the ass. His dealer said it was pilot error and never heard of a "flat spot". Whatta load....

I haven't had the flat spot trouble though I think it's sluggish. Another guy in our club can get his idle to drop 200rpms+ when he rests his hand on the throttle the wrong way!

[eddfive]

I am in Dallas Texas.  The other tricky thing about the DBW bikes is the poistion the throttle is in when the bike is shut off.  If you have your hand on the throttle or rev it then hit the kill switch the DBW system will re-teach itself zero position or another words mess with the idle and startup.  I heard but have not witnessed that HD has a fix for this where it will leave the DBW active for 10sec. after shutdown, not sure if this is true or not.  I tell most people to shut there DBW bike off with there right hand and use the main switch in front of the gas fill nozzle.  This DBW can be reset with a series of on-off with the main switch.  I believe it is (4) times and let the bike be in ready to start mode and fuel pump off then switch off.  Hope this makes sense, but the DBW bikes are new and have there own set of little issues we have to learn.

[hunter]

I am in Dallas Texas.  The other tricky thing about the DBW bikes is the poistion the throttle is in when the bike is shut off.  If you have your hand on the throttle or rev it then hit the kill switch the DBW system will re-teach itself zero position or another words mess with the idle and startup.  I heard but have not witnessed that HD has a fix for this where it will leave the DBW active for 10sec. after shutdown, not sure if this is true or not.  I tell most people to shut there DBW bike off with there right hand and use the main switch in front of the gas fill nozzle.  This DBW can be reset with a series of on-off with the main switch.  I believe it is (4) times and let the bike be in ready to start mode and fuel pump off then switch off.  Hope this makes sense, but the DBW bikes are new and have there own set of little issues we have to learn.

This is actually by design for so called Parade Mode so the bike runs on high idle and you don't have to hold the throttle.
Everything for Parade.  I wounder if they have a solution for leak during parade?   

[08roadkingse]

huh? you can set the idle for parade? Never heard that one before.

I've just recently started bumping the throttle right before I shut down as it seems to help my starting issue. I had to have the starter shaft (?) replaced, as when I would start the bike I'd get through a few cycles and then a nasty grind noise, sometimes backfire through the EFI. The part was on backorder and the dealer thought this must be happening allot. I hear the recall on the acr and heads is based on this problem which is possibly the acr's not functioning and trying to start the bike at full compression.

Anyone heard of this problem?

[hunter]

huh? you can set the idle for parade? Never heard that one before.

I've just recently started bumping the throttle right before I shut down as it seems to help my starting issue. I had to have the starter shaft (?) replaced, as when I would start the bike I'd get through a few cycles and then a nasty grind noise, sometimes backfire through the EFI. The part was on backorder and the dealer thought this must be happening allot. I hear the recall on the acr and heads is based on this problem which is possibly the acr's not functioning and trying to start the bike at full compression.

Anyone heard of this problem?

It's part of "improvement offer" along with head gasket and some other stuffs.

[eddfive]

I am in Dallas Texas.  The other tricky thing about the DBW bikes is the poistion the throttle is in when the bike is shut off.  If you have your hand on the throttle or rev it then hit the kill switch the DBW system will re-teach itself zero position or another words mess with the idle and startup.  I heard but have not witnessed that HD has a fix for this where it will leave the DBW active for 10sec. after shutdown, not sure if this is true or not.  I tell most people to shut there DBW bike off with there right hand and use the main switch in front of the gas fill nozzle.  This DBW can be reset with a series of on-off with the main switch.  I believe it is (4) times and let the bike be in ready to start mode and fuel pump off then switch off.  Hope this makes sense, but the DBW bikes are new and have there own set of little issues we have to learn.

This is actually by design for so called Parade Mode so the bike runs on high idle and you don't have to hold the throttle.
Everything for Parade.  I wounder if they have a solution for leak during parade

No, this is not parade mode, this is the electronic in continual learning mode.  You can reset the zero postion if the throttle is active when turning it off.  Parade mode you have to actually hit the switches in the throttle for it to activate.  What I am talking about has nothing to do with parade mode.

[08roadkingse]

gotcha.

Now on my bike, the throttle doesn't get lower if I try to roll my throttle back past zero like on my friends ride. Is that a defect in the system on something that can be corrected?

[eddfive]

The DBW throttle has (2) switches, one at the other end of WOT and at the other end of zero.  These are used for truning cruise on and off, entering Parade mode and such.  They have nothing to do with effecting idle control unless of course you go into parade mode and one of the cylinders shuts down.  Depending when your bike was built you may or may not have this feature programmed into the ECU.  The HD dealer should be able to flash the ECU with this fix/upgrade.

[Classic Beast]

I was sure that Doc 1 had covered this problem with the TTS tuner but can't seem to locate the thread where he talked about it.