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[Hoist!]

Well, here we go again! After getting screwed around by his dealer, my buddy's SERK left him in NJ covered in oil! This was after being at the dealer 3 times in the last few weeks for this problem. The Symptom: The bike would run OK and at normal temps, then start running very eratic and very hot (325-350 OT's). The dealer finally diagnosed it as the PC imcompatibility with a 110 ECM! Buncha idiots! Their final diagnosis was that the PC THEY sold him went bad, was not compatible with 110 ECM's, and he needed a SERT. But of course they couldn't get to it til 9/16!!! He was pissed! He took it to the indie that this dealer uses for their tuning, who tuned the bike with the PC, to have the SERT installed and have it redynoed! This was earlier this week!

The bike ran OK for a few days, but it happened today again. But this time when he got off, he and the bike were covered in oil! I told him to check the Crank Position Sensor. He pulled it and it was melted to chit! Definite cause of the leak, and I suspected the cause of his eratic running too. Seemed to go haywire as it heated up!

So he's on his way over here right now from NJ to pick up an extra CP sensor I have. As ya'll know, I travel with a spare of every sensor we have on the bike! Wouldn't wanna count on a dealer having one of these sensors when needed, as he found out today! I hope his crank isn't what caused the CP sensor to chit to bed! But I suspect scissored flywheels cause a problem like this! The new CP sensor should get him home today, but now what? Go back to those same morons for more misdiagnosis!!! Have then build an engine!!! What a conundrum you guys have relying on these dealers!!! FTF!!! FTW!!! & FTD!!!

Hoist!

[planenut]

who's the dealer and does cletus wurk there,pretty freaken sad,time for a new dealer,i know a few and some of these guys dont think outside the box,just do what there told

jon

[igofar]

IMHO and personal experience the root cause of this will end up being a damaged oil pump.

The crank sensor is the weak link and it starts to melt and then eventually leaks, relieving the pressure in the crankcases.

PS. Hoist, you and me and most everyone else on this board knows what damaged the oil pump!!
Now if we could just get Mother Harley to agree that anything over about .003-.005" crank run out is TOO MUCH!!


Brad

[Hoist!]

IMHO and personal experience the root cause of this will end up being a damaged oil pump.

The crank sensor is the weak link and it starts to melt and then eventually leaks, relieving the pressure in the crankcases.

PS. Hoist, you and me and most everyone else on this board knows what damaged the oil pump!!
Now if we could just get Mother Harley to agree that anything over about .003-.005" crank run out is TOO MUCH!!


Brad

Absolutely Brad. That's the first thing I told him to check next! Runout. How do you deal with someone that tells ya .012" is OK though?

Hoist!

[AXIL]

hoist and brad , agreed.  axil

[bikerbehaviorist]

This is not an isolated event. I just got my bike back from the dealer for the recall "fix" and a ball hone, new rings, valve lap, and new valve guides for blow by problems. This visit was also supposed to fix a grinding noise problem at start up, which was supposedly a bad ACR. Well the "fix" had new ACRS and I am still getting the grinding noise.... these people just can not get things done right!!!!!!!

[colcop]

Sounds like a similar problem to me!!!!
Copy of my post of yesterday::

Hi,

I have just had a similar problem, my 2007 CVO Road King has just had a 1000 mile service (bought it a month ago and had it
serviced to make sure all was OK).

Anyway, there I was on my first bike run for over 30years with three mates and my gleaming blue bike...............
After a stint at about 60mph in 5th gear, the neutral light came on and then dimmed in and out so I pulled over.

As soon as I stopped, the bit vibrated very badly - could hardly hold the handlebars. Killed the engine and saw oil
all over the left side of the engine - lots of smoke from it burning too.

It appeared to come from somewhere around the oil cooler/filter and was also dripping out of the aircleaner.

Bike ambulance back to the dealer and wait for diagnosis....................

Anyone have any ideas as I am somewhat clueless about modern bikes. My last ride was a 1973 Norton Commando!

Many thanks............


Others have had similar failures with early production '07 CVO110 engines.  Look at the left front of the engine where the crankshaft position sensor is bolted to the case (just behind and to the left of the oil filter) and see if that isn't broken and allowing oil to blow out.   The crankshaft can shift out of true and allow the left flywheel to hit the sensor.  If that is what you have, you're looking at a major repair, either a full teardown and crank replacement or a complete engine depending on how much other damage has been done.

Jerry
 
 

[rlavigna]

Howie,

Thank you for your help and the use of your backup Crank Position Sensor.  It was an eventful day that did not end until after my brother in law got a flat tire on the Cross Bronx Expressway on the way back to NJ from getting the CP sensor from Hoist.  Just about the worst place in the world to get a flat and change a tire.  We had no choice but to laugh as cars came close to hitting us a few times. 

After installing the new CP sensor, the bike ran at its normal 215 to 220 temp and not the 325 to 350 temp it hit when the sensor was starting to fail.  The stupid thing about our bikes is that a burnt CP sensor does not cause any codes to show.  That is why my Huntington, NY dealer was unable to diagnose the problem because there was not a fault code.  The plastic that melted from the sensor that I removed is in the engine and this can't be a good thing.  I will deal with that in the next day or so. 

I just hope that the sensor was the problem and not the symptom of another problem.  This results in a conundrum we all face.  Without good mechanics who take the time to troubleshoot problems instead of looking at you like you have 2 heads.

Again, thanks Howie!

Rich
 

[Mikko]

How many miles have you been riding now with the new sensor? Is there someone here that has had the same and the reason was not crank runout or oil pump but the faulty sensor?
I had the same with my FLHTCUSE2 here in Finland, Europe on May 31st. Very high temperature, no power and oil leak out from molten CPS. Since then the bike has been at the dealer. First they waited for the CPS and received it in the end of June. They started the engine, measured the oil coming from the crank housing and agreed something is wrong. Then they dismantled cylinders and checked small oil jets. No reason found. I have asked them to measure crank runout but they don't want to do it. Now we are waiting for recall cylinder heads + gaskets and then they are just putting the parts back. I said that the reason should be found but no response other than these are the instructions from H-D Europe. Well riding season here is only May-September and Warranty is soon over with only 1000 miles on the bike. I asked importer to give one year more warranty because of not being able to ride and he said yes. I asked it confirmed on paper but no response in three weeks.
My bike was waxed and like new when I was riding it. Now when I saw it it was dirty, tank paint was full of small scratches. I really regret of buying this bike that costs here over 70.000 USD. Piece of chit and arrogant MoCo not taking care of customers. Thank god I have Ducatis for riding.

[rlavigna]

How many miles have you been riding now with the new sensor? Is there someone here that has had the same and the reason was not crank runout or oil pump but the faulty sensor?
I had the same with my FLHTCUSE2 here in Finland, Europe on May 31st. Very high temperature, no power and oil leak out from molten CPS. Since then the bike has been at the dealer. First they waited for the CPS and received it in the end of June. They started the engine, measured the oil coming from the crank housing and agreed something is wrong. Then they dismantled cylinders and checked small oil jets. No reason found. I have asked them to measure crank runout but they don't want to do it. Now we are waiting for recall cylinder heads + gaskets and then they are just putting the parts back. I said that the reason should be found but no response other than these are the instructions from H-D Europe. Well riding season here is only May-September and Warranty is soon over with only 1000 miles on the bike. I asked importer to give one year more warranty because of not being able to ride and he said yes. I asked it confirmed on paper but no response in three weeks.
My bike was waxed and like new when I was riding it. Now when I saw it it was dirty, tank paint was full of small scratches. I really regret of buying this bike that costs here over 70.000 USD. Piece of chit and arrogant MoCo not taking care of customers. Thank god I have Ducatis for riding.

Since installing the new sensor last night, I rode about 60 miles at my normal pace to get back home.  My crank runout was checked when my lower gasket leak was fixed back in April '08.  I have not done the 0906 repair yet since I do not have a gasket leak at this time. 

Sorry to hear your bike has been down all this time. 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Howie,

Thank you for your help and the use of your backup Crank Position Sensor.  It was an eventful day that did not end until after my brother in law got a flat tire on the Cross Bronx Expressway on the way back to NJ from getting the CP sensor from Hoist.  Just about the worst place in the world to get a flat and change a tire.  We had no choice but to laugh as cars came close to hitting us a few times. 

After installing the new CP sensor, the bike ran at its normal 215 to 220 temp and not the 325 to 350 temp it hit when the sensor was starting to fail.  The stupid thing about our bikes is that a burnt CP sensor does not cause any codes to show.  That is why my Huntington, NY dealer was unable to diagnose the problem because there was not a fault code.  The plastic that melted from the sensor I removed is in the engine can't be a good thing and I will deal with that in the next day or so. 

I just hope that the sensor was the problem and not the symptom of another problem.  This reults in a conundrum we all face.  Without good mechanics who take the time to troubleshoot problems instead of looking at you like you have 2 heads.

Again, thanks Howie!

Rich
 

Sorry for your frustrations Rich. Let us know what happens with her will ya?

Howie

[Hoist!]

I'm glad it got you home OK Rich!

Now to find the root cause of the failure. Was it just a CP sensor failure? Was it taken out by the crank? Did it's destruction do any internal damage? Where are the pieces that disintegrated in the engine? Who's determining all this now, and who's paying for any repairs? Seems like you're at the crossroads of determining whether to count on these dealers anymore, or take matters into your own hands. At least we have alternatives here, with qualified indies available to us. Lemme know what I can do to help further!

Hoist!

[skreminegul07]

Parts do not just melt on their own. 

It just keeps getting better and better, and only two years into this.  Imagine what's coming?

[miker]

Parts do not just melt on their own. 

It just keeps getting better and better, and only two years into this.  Imagine what's coming?

A Gold Wing?

[skreminegul07]

A Gold Wing?

Maybe a Wing and a prayer