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Author Topic: Financial Meltdown?!  (Read 87922 times)

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Midnight Rider

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #645 on: October 03, 2008, 02:37:19 PM »

One of the fallacies is that the Republicans are for big business and the wealthy, and the Democrats are for the poor and working class.  I don't know that that has ever been really true, but it definitely isn't these days.  All politicians are for big business and the wealthy, regardless of party.  How many f'ing poor folks have you seen treat their congressman or senator to a "fact finding" junket to Tahiti, or contribute millions to their campaigns via various backdoor conduits?

Jerry

I could treat them to a Donkey Piss (Corona), taco, and refried beans fest.  Do you think they'd help me out if I did that?  Maybe they'd pass a tax credit for my being good to my dogs...the vet bills add up, you know, and they are my children.  My bird has a kid's name...maybe I ought to start claiming him...he's college age now.
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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #646 on: October 03, 2008, 03:53:11 PM »

I could treat them to a Donkey Piss (Corona), taco, and refried beans fest.  Do you think they'd help me out if I did that?  Maybe they'd pass a tax credit for my being good to my dogs...the vet bills add up, you know, and they are my children.  My bird has a kid's name...maybe I ought to start claiming him...he's college age now.

Terry,

When the kids were babies, I filled out a survey - claimed I had 6 kids & a nice income.  Only had 2 kids then - and ever since.  When the "fake name" kids would have been college age, they got college invites & invites to join the armed forces.  Credit card offers with up to $10k credit.  All kinds of stuff.  Went on for years.  We laughed about it.  The names I used for the "extra" 4 kids were pet names.  Pretty typical pet names, too.

Anyway, this bill is a chit sandwich that we get from congress with no free t.p.

Mike
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spydglide

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #647 on: October 03, 2008, 04:13:14 PM »

Terry,

When the kids were babies, I filled out a survey - claimed I had 6 kids & a nice income.  Only had 2 kids then - and ever since.  When the "fake name" kids would have been college age, they got college invites & invites to join the armed forces.  Credit card offers with up to $10k credit.  All kinds of stuff.  Went on for years.  We laughed about it.  The names I used for the "extra" 4 kids were pet names.  Pretty typical pet names, too.



Mike
You mean, like: Harley, Evo, and Knuckle?  :nixweiss:  har.  spyder
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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #648 on: October 03, 2008, 07:45:25 PM »

unbelievable - the politicians just cant help themselves. they will ALWAYS spend our money any chance they can. Democratic president with Democratic congress - i get a headache just thinking about what they will spend. A $2mm tax break for makers of wooden arrows for children!! come on!!!



"While crafting a bill intended to rescue the U.S. economy this week, lawmakers couldn't stop themselves from adding billions of dollars in tax breaks that have little to do with restoring confidence in financial markets.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senators quietly tucked a number of earmarks into the tax package of the 451-page bill that was passed Wednesday night and is expected to be put to a vote in the House today: a $2 million tax benefit for makers of wooden arrows for children; a $100 million tax break to benefit auto racetrack owners; $192 million in rebates on excise taxes for the Puerto Rican and Virgin Islands rum industry; $148 million in tax relief for U.S. wool fabric producers; and a $49 million tax benefit for fishermen and other plaintiffs who sued over the 1989 tanker Exxon Valdez spill.

Many of the tax breaks were put in place years ago and were set to expire. But their inclusion is complicating efforts in the House to pass an economic rescue plan; an earlier attempt failed Monday. Several House Republicans railed on Thursday against the pork-packed bailout bill.

"One thing we didn't appreciate in the Senate's action was that they decided that this bill should become Christmas in October," said Steven LaTourette, R-Ohio. "We just don't think (the earmarks) should be in this piece of legislation."

The tax earmarks were scarcely noticed during the Senate debate over a bill that featured a $700 billion bailout package and a $112 billion tax package, including the renewal of popular tax breaks for businesses and renewable energy projects and a one-year effort to shield at least 20 million Americans from paying the alternative minimum tax.

Broad support
The bill was approved easily, 74-25, winning support even from lawmakers who have crusaded against earmarks - including Arizona Sen. John McCain, the Republican Party's presidential nominee, who warned last week that he might oppose a bailout bill if it included more pork-barrel spending.

"It is completely unacceptable for any kind of earmarks to be included in this bill," he said in a speech in Freeland, Mich. "It would be outrageous for legislators and lobbyists to pack this rescue plan with taxpayer money for favored companies. This simply cannot happen."

On MSNBC's "Morning Joe" program Thursday, McCain was pressed on why he voted for a plan that included earmarks that he strongly opposed. He said he had to support the bill because the country is "on the brink of economic disaster."

"There were plenty of other bills that I fought against, voted against" because of pork, McCain said.

The tax earmarks were championed by both sides of the aisle. Western lawmakers, especially Sens. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, backed an expansion of a program that helps pay for rural schools. Lawmakers from states with no income tax backed an extension of a program that allows residents in states including Texas, Nevada, Florida, Washington and Wyoming to deduct the sales tax they pay over a year from their federal taxes, a provision that costs the Treasury $3.3 billion over two years.

Benefit for film producers
Even Hollywood got something out of the Senate bill: renewal of a tax incentive worth nearly $48 million a year for film and TV producers who produce their work in the United States.

The earmarks are not exactly new. They were passed by the Senate on Sept. 23 on a 92-3 vote (McCain and his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, were absent) for a tax package costing more than $100 billion. House Democratic leaders opposed the Senate's tax plan because it wasn't fully paid for and will add to the federal deficit.

Steve Ellis, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, the congressional watchdog group that tracked the earmarks in the bill, said Senate leaders had two main objectives in strapping the tax package to the financial bailout plan.

"One is they're hoping this will turn a few votes, that people who support some of these provisions will forget about the $700 billion and concerns they may have on that, and say, 'If you give me a few million in tax breaks for my constituents, I'll go along,' " Ellis said. "The second reason is that this is your standard, run-of-the-mill, end-of-year politics. You take a piece of must-pass legislation, you cram whatever you want in there and you dare the House to oppose it. It's really a pretty cynical maneuver."

The tactic might have helped pass the plan in the Senate, but it's making life tougher for House leaders. The House narrowly defeated the bailout plan 228-205 Monday, and lawmakers now must flip at least 12 votes to change the outcome.

House Blue Dogs are complaining about the costs of the tax package. Republicans are unhappy at what they see as an attempt to sneak pork into the bill. Rep. David Hobson, R-Ohio, voted for the bill but said he's now undecided. "I hope other people who voted yes may be reconsidering where they are when they get the outrage of the pork barrel projects," he said.

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Hugh Janis

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #649 on: October 04, 2008, 08:20:29 AM »

That's reprehensible!  Who was the author of the bill?  They were simply buying votes with the pork.  That's why we NEED line item veto!
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #650 on: October 04, 2008, 09:40:48 AM »

This is a very sad morning in American history. To wake up and see what our elected officials have done to this country. We are in trouble maybe not right now but you can bet sometime in the future this will all come to a head. They may have avoided a DEPRESSION right now. All they did was move it into the future.

If you think it is going to be bad now. With Democratic control in congress we better hope Obama does not win the election.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
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Robmay

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #651 on: October 04, 2008, 10:00:06 AM »

Is there a way to find out who voted for what? Then we could vote and change those people out with a fresh batch and give them a try. No matter what their political party!
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BLM777

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #652 on: October 04, 2008, 10:29:21 AM »

This is a very sad morning in American history. To wake up and see what our elected officials have done to this country. We are in trouble maybe not right now but you can bet sometime in the future this will all come to a head. They may have avoided a DEPRESSION right now. All they did was move it into the future.

If you think it is going to be bad now. With Democratic control in congress we better hope Obama does not win the election.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Unfortunately, I doubt it.  Based upon personal and factual 1st hand knowledge, I can assure you that US dollars are leaving the country in volume and frequency never before seen in the international banking community.  It's all about the liberal congress and the assumption that there may be enough intellectually challenged voters to elect the ultimate welfare candidate.  It boils down to a LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN THE US DOLLAR.  To answer the obvious replies, I would add that the landslide of cash and assets to offshore destinations is not just the "fat cats" attempting to hide recent bonus payments, but for the first time, an alarming number of "folks" as in middle class, career working people who are attempting to secure what little savings they may have either thru cashout retirement funds, family trusts or equity loan proceeds acquired prior to the credit bust.  Faced with the ridiculously sliding dollar they are electing to establish the assets in an unaffected, stable currency with purchasing power in foreign markets.

The idiot congress could pass a "bailout" a week to no avail if the money and credit available doesn't stick to our shores.
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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #653 on: October 04, 2008, 10:33:21 AM »

Remember it was the Republican president and Republican controlled congress of the last 6 out of 7 1/2 years that took a surplus from a Democratic president  and turned it into the largest debt ever. 

Trickle down doesn't work because you can't insure that the CEO's will share with the middle class.  Instead, if they can make more money out sourcing the jobs to improve the bottom line and improve shareholder value they will.  Reward corporations for keeping jobs here to offset labor savings abroad.  What's good for General Motors is no longer what's good for America. 
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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #654 on: October 04, 2008, 10:35:04 AM »

You can thank our dependence on foreign oil and our political correctness, that moved us away from Manifest Destiny, for this whole mess. And as we stay more politically correct, it will get worse. Fuel runs the nation and controls everything we do. Until we find a way around OPEC pushing us around and controlling our economy, we're doomed to keep taking it up the a$$!!! Bring back Manifest Destiny before we lose control!!! ;)

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DCFIREMANN

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #655 on: October 04, 2008, 11:12:41 AM »

:soapbox:
Trickle down doesn't work because you can't insure that the CEO's will share with the middle class.  Instead, if they can make more money out sourcing the jobs to improve the bottom line and improve shareholder value they will.  Reward corporations for keeping jobs here to offset labor savings abroad.  What's good for General Motors is no longer what's good for America. 

It was something they inherited. You think this CHIT started 6 or 7 years ago????? NOT!!!! If we would close our borders and protect our borders it might help. BLM is partiallyy correct we are seeing our US dollars leaving this country at an alarming rate like we have never seen it before. The NAFTA has also helped bring our economy down not to mention lending money to people who have no right to it or the means to pay it back. But our great liberal Congress will guaranty those loans.

This whole world economy is in grave danger. WE NEED A DEPRESSION to straighten it back out. Why do you think Alan Greenspan retired?????? He didn't want to be a part of this BULLCHIT.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 11:14:37 AM by DCFIREMANN »
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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #656 on: October 04, 2008, 11:46:45 AM »

Remember it was the Republican president and Republican controlled congress of the last 6 out of 7 1/2 years that took a surplus from a Democratic president  and turned it into the largest debt ever. 

Trickle down doesn't work because you can't insure that the CEO's will share with the middle class.  Instead, if they can make more money out sourcing the jobs to improve the bottom line and improve shareholder value they will.  Reward corporations for keeping jobs here to offset labor savings abroad.  What's good for General Motors is no longer what's good for America. 

There is no doubt Bush squardered an opportunity to be fiscally conservative. He wanted his war so bad that he had to give in to spending elsewhere - typically pushed by the democrats.  But do remember please that saying Clinton had a surplus is misleading. The US government has funny accounting. They run their books on a cash basis -not accrual basis which means that they can make all sorts of promises to pay in the future which dont show up as a current liability/expense.  So when Clinton increases entitlements under SS and Medicare, he is spending more money but it just doesnt show up in the current year.  So, lets be careful on blaming one party over the other.

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #657 on: October 04, 2008, 11:50:53 AM »

It was something they inherited. You think this CHIT started 6 or 7 years ago????? NOT!!!! If we would close our borders and protect our borders it might help. BLM is partiallyy correct we are seeing our US dollars leaving this country at an alarming rate like we have never seen it before. The NAFTA has also helped bring our economy down not to mention lending money to people who have no right to it or the means to pay it back. But our great liberal Congress will guaranty those loans.

This whole world economy is in grave danger. WE NEED A DEPRESSION to straighten it back out. Why do you think Alan Greenspan retired?????? He didn't want to be a part of this BULLCHIT.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Totally agree. we will be going a significant deleveraging of America and its going to be painful. We need a deep recession to ring out the excess.  Government intervention now is just delaying it. i am afraid that the $700B bailout will be lost. The question is when and how we come out of the recession/depression.  Immigration may not be a problem as many immigrants may end up going home!!!!

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Midnight Rider

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #658 on: October 04, 2008, 01:02:35 PM »

The country is not butthole deep in debt only because of these recent activities, nor the subprime lending fiasco.  Nor the bailout.  The elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge is GW's obsession...the Iraq War.  I have lost count of how many billions of dollars we've had to borrow to fight that war, instead of the proper war in Afghanistan, but I think at last count it was quickly approaching 1 Trillion, and the currently monthly expenses are around 10 Billion, not including the interest we're paying on the borrowed money to fight the war.  Now we are stuck there, and cannot pull out without looking like failures.  Now, whoever wins the election is going to have to deal not only with a faltering economy, but also how to continue to pay the war expenses and debt incurred.

I don't care how you look at it, or how far you want to go back to try and prove that it was not GW's fault, blah, blah, HE has been in charge of things for the past 8 years, and had a Republican Legislative Branch for the vast majority of that time, so if something was broken, HE should have fixed it.  Trying to shift that responsibility onto past administrations does not hold water.  Whether you want to debate the reasons into the ground or not, some of the most prosperous years for the economy, in our history, were during the Clinton years, and regardless of accounting methodology, we were a hell of a lot better off in 1999 than we are in 2008.  Those are facts which cannot be denied. 

We can debate this stuff ad nauseum...the bottom line is The President gets both the blame and the credit for things.  Our reputation has been damaged worldwide by the arrogance, and frankly ignorance, of GW...the world's confidence in our economy, which has traditionally driven the rest of the world, has been shaken to the foundations.  I am not surprised.  The blame game can on on endlessly.  The future of the country depends on who steps up to the plate and trys to fix it, painful though it may be.  It is my opinion that the average working stiff out there is not going to put the party who they feel is responsible for making the mess back in charge.  The polls support this view, but it's funny how people only want to believe the polls when they support what they want to hear, and not the other direction.
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SPIDERMAN

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Re: Financial Meltdown?!
« Reply #659 on: October 04, 2008, 01:04:41 PM »

The country is not butthole deep in debt only because of these recent activities, nor the subprime lending fiasco.  Nor the bailout.  The elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge is GW's obsession...the Iraq War.  I have lost count of how many billions of dollars we've had to borrow to fight that war, instead of the proper war in Afghanistan, but I think at last count it was quickly approaching 1 Trillion, and the currently monthly expenses are around 10 Billion, not including the interest we're paying on the borrowed money to fight the war.  Now we are stuck there, and cannot pull out without looking like failures.  Now, whoever wins the election is going to have to deal not only with a faltering economy, but also how to continue to pay the war expenses and debt incurred.

I don't care how you look at it, or how far you want to go back to try and prove that it was not GW's fault, blah, blah, HE has been in charge of things for the past 8 years, and had a Republican Legislative Branch for the vast majority of that time, so if something was broken, HE should have fixed it.  Trying to shift that responsibility onto past administrations does not hold water.  Whether you want to debate the reasons into the ground or not, some of the most prosperous years for the economy, in our history, were during the Clinton years, and regardless of accounting methodology, we were a hell of a lot better off in 1999 than we are in 2008.  Those are facts which cannot be denied. 

We can debate this stuff ad nauseum...the bottom line is The President gets both the blame and the credit for things.  Our reputation has been damaged worldwide by the arrogance, and frankly ignorance, of GW...the world's confidence in our economy, which has traditionally driven the rest of the world, has been shaken to the foundations.  I am not surprised.  The blame game can on on endlessly.  The future of the country depends on who steps up to the plate and trys to fix it, painful though it may be.  It is my opinion that the average working stiff out there is not going to put the party who they feel is responsible for making the mess back in charge.  The polls support this view, but it's funny how people only want to believe the polls when they support what they want to hear, and not the other direction.

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