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[dartman]

OC 1, The difference in performance between my 07 SE Ultra, and its replacement an 09 SE Road Glide is hard to believe, The 07 was worthless in 6th gear below 70 mph , the 09 with two teeth more pulls nicely from 60 on, making for a much more useable drive train.

[SBB]

I'm not exacatly sure what the 09 gearing is hell i'm not exactly sure what my 07 gearing is, but I do seem to remember reading some were that they did lower the gearing on the 09's. Do you know how many RPM's you are running at 70 mph?

OC

We rode a few miles today.
To answer your question.
With the speedometer showing 70 the tach shows almost 2600.
Maybe 2550?
But just because the speedo showed 70 was that accurate?
The tach shows 2200, 2400, 2600, 2800 and the needle was between 24 and 2600 @70mph and I would call it closer to 2600.
Hope that helps.

 

[SBB]

OC

We rode a few miles today.
To answer your question.
With the speedometer showing 70 the tach shows almost 2600.
Maybe 2550?
But just because the speedo showed 70 was that accurate?
The tach shows 2200, 2400, 2600, 2800 and the needle was between 24 and 2600 @70mph and I would call it closer to 2600.
Hope that helps.

 

Quoting myself! 
Always feel like Hoist when I do that.
But Jerry (GRC) tell us if my numbers are accurate?
09 SEUC4 I show approx 2550 RPM at 70 MPH, is that close Jerry?

 

[grc]

Besides the two tooth difference in the rear pulley, there is most likely a difference in the circumference of the rear tire that will also change the effective gear ratio.  What tire is on the rear of the '09 versus the '07?

Jerry

[SBB]

Besides the two tooth difference in the rear pulley, there is most likely a difference in the circumference of the rear tire that will also change the effective gear ratio.  What tire is on the rear of the '09 versus the '07?

Jerry

It's a 180 but not sure how tall?

[Dan_Lockwood]

I can't say for positive, but today at 75 mph I was reading just about 2,900 rpm in 6th gear.  When I ride I ride two up and even if I slow down to 55 or 60 mph without shifting, I can ease on the throttle without trying to lug it, and it increases in speed very quickly.  I have an '08 SERK.

I have no problems with the speed upper end, although maybe a few more revs wouldn't hurt anything.

All this talk about rear and front sprockets, don't you have to do a complete primary removal to change out the front output sprocket?  The rear sprocket, if you can maintain your stock belt, would be a good choice.  I'm not certain but the belt pitch looks to be about 3/8" or 1/2".  If that's the case two teeth will move the axle approximately one tooth pitch closer to the trans.  Then you have to recalibrate the speedos on the '07s or '08s.

I still think the better option is the Evo Industries clutch hub with the original starter sprocket and a 49th clutch sprocket.  I comes with the new primary chain and you don't have to pull the inner primary cover off.  You also don't have to fuss with the speedo as it's all upstream from the trans.  I think the dollars are a bit more, but the hassle factor may be less overall.  The clutch sprocket and primary chain kit is about $324.00 and I'm not sure what the rear sprocket costs for the rear wheel.  Doing this is about a 5.5% increase in low gear for a better take off and less clutch slipping, especially two up.  If I had this conversion my 75 mph rpm would raise from 2,900 to 3,060, not a lot but enough probably to help out at slightly slower speeds.

I just read the AMI review of the Tri-Glide and one of the things they said in that was that they had to slip the clutch on take off a bit more than they would have thought.  Now if any of the HD bikes need a lower low gear it's the Tri-Glide.

I could see the gear ratio as a benefit if it were a car because they could tout the "increase" in mileage the extra taller ratio provides.  But with bikes I don't hear anything about C.A.F.E. mileage requirements, so why does HD insist on making the rpms so low on these bikes?  Is it emissions related too?

[grc]

OK, here's the info I can find so far.  The rear tire on the '09 Touring models except for the SERG is a D407  180/65B16.  The SERG tire is a D407 180/55B18, which is a lower profile but a larger rim diameter.  The Dunlop site has no information on the actual dimensions of either tire (overall diameter or circumference), so I can't calculate what affect the tire size has on speed versus rpm relative to earlier models, or within the '09 models between the two tire sizes.  It would appear that the SERG's will have different effective gear ratios than the other '09's due to the circumference of the rear tires.

Jerry

[Keats]

I guess I could go back to the original plan of bolting a 06 70 tooth rear sprocket to the wheel and lose the IDS feature and change front from a 32 to a 30 tooth and get a speedo compensator?

at least the final drive would be 3.15 which will give it more get up and go...

[smiley1049]

I put a 30 tooth on mine and they just had to recalibrate the ecm.

[Keats]

I put a 30 tooth on mine and they just had to recalibrate the ecm.

I would expect that a 2 tooth reduction in the drive (front) effects final ratio more than a 2 tooth addition to the rear?

[Fullsac Performance]

I reduced the front belt sprocket from 32 to 30 teeth on my 07 for a final drive of 2.96. Had to go 1 tooth shorter on the belt. The improvement in drivability was amazing. Milage increased, lugging the engine isn't efficient. I believe a 31 tooth front pulley on the 09 will achieve the same final drive of 2.96 (as seen in the chart, Thanks grc) without needing a shorter rear belt. It did throw the speedo off, but my cruise and 6th gear light were uneffected. Other who have changed the primary gearing have reported a loss of cruise and or 6th gear light due to the computer seeing an error in speed VS RPM. To test this, I set my cruise and ever so slightly started to pull in the clutch. The very second the RPM increased the cruise disengaged. Will the 09s loose cruise with a primary gearing change? I'm not going to find out. I do plan on the doing the 30 or 31 tooth front pulley on my 09 EGC when It comes in (DEC 9th!). I'm going to tune with the TTS, so correcting the speedo will be no problem after the gearing change. Again, the improvement the lower final drive made was Huge. And the improvement begins when you let the clutch out in 1st gear. With the 2.96, GPS at 75 mph is 3000 RPM. GPS at 100 mph is 4000 RPM. Just right for touring and passing tree huggers with enough velocity to pull their doors open.

Steve

[MUFFMAN]

I too am going with the 30 tooth front sprocket this winter. Will have to go with a shorter belt. A friend of mine went with a 30 tooth on his 07 96" Ultra with very good results. He now can keep up with me off the line until I get through 2nd gear. Wasn't even close before. His mileage went up about 3 mpg as well. THE MUFFMAN.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I reduced the front belt sprocket from 32 to 30 teeth on my 07 for a final drive of 2.96. Had to go 1 tooth shorter on the belt. The improvement in drivability was amazing. Milage increased, lugging the engine isn't efficient. I believe a 31 tooth front pulley on the 09 will achieve the same final drive of 2.96 (as seen in the chart, Thanks grc) without needing a shorter rear belt. It did throw the speedo off, but my cruise and 6th gear light were uneffected. Other who have changed the primary gearing have reported a loss of cruise and or 6th gear light due to the computer seeing an error in speed VS RPM.

To test this, I set my cruise and ever so slightly started to pull in the clutch. The very second the RPM increased the cruise disengaged. Will the 09s loose cruise with a primary gearing change? I'm not going to find out.

I do plan on the doing the 30 or 31 tooth front pulley on my 09 EGC when It comes in (DEC 9th!). I'm going to tune with the TTS, so correcting the speedo will be no problem after the gearing change. Again, the improvement the lower final drive made was Huge. And the improvement begins when you let the clutch out in 1st gear. With the 2.96, GPS at 75 mph is 3000 RPM. GPS at 100 mph is 4000 RPM. Just right for touring and passing tree huggers with enough velocity to pull their doors open.

Steve

Steve, you raise a point about the cruise control.  But to be honest I think what it did when you pulled in the clutch it tripped a switch and was not actually reading rpms; I think it was a switch that kicked the cruise off.

If we take that same scenario a bit further, the ECM does not know what gear you're in other than when the 6th gear green light comes on in 6th gear.  So if you set the cruise for 60 mph in 5th gear it runs fine and will maintain that speed up or down hills.  Due to the fact that it's actually mechanically connect, motor to rear wheel, the rpms do not go up, only the throttle opens to go up hills etc.  But now take that same 60 mph and shift into 4th gear and set the cruise.  You're now maintaining 60 mph but at several hundred more rpms and the cruise could care less.

I've been a big proponent to just do the clutch housing sprockets in previous posts/threads, but I'm not sure that the actual cost difference is.  With the 30 tooth output sprocket and new rear belt, what did that cost?  Then you have to take off the rear wheel, brakes etc to re-thread the new belt.  You also have to do the whole primary cover removal, primary chain, clutch basket, inner primary housing and mess with all that oil.  So why not just stop there and do the sprocket and chain change?  I've calculated out the percentage increase and rpms etc and it's within about 25 rpms of your 30th sprocket conversion.  Now the clutch sprocket and chain will set a person back $324.00.  So I'm curious what the difference is and I'll figure in all the extra labor to do the output sprocket and drive belt change.

I'm tired of slipping my clutch so much in 1st gear riding two up and I know, like you've said, the performance and economy have come up as well.  This is exactly what I'm looking for.

So if you can share with me the sprocket and belt costs, I would greatly appreciate that.

Thanks.

[grc]

The cruise control will be kicked out by brake application, throttle roll-off, turning off the main switch, speeds higher than 85 mph, speeds below 30 mph, Run/Stop switch moved to off, and any significant increase in rpms, as in when disengaging the clutch.  On the non-ETC models, the cruise module monitors both rpm and vehicle speed.  The kick-out caused by pulling the clutch was due to the rpm difference, not a switch.  Now that they do have a clutch switch for starter interlock purposes, I suppose they could use that input but I don't see any need to change from the rpm based system and I don't believe they have.  Either way, the gearing wouldn't create a problem since it isn't an absolute rpm value the module is looking at, just the current rpm relative to the setpoint rpm.

Jerry

[Gecko]

I'd like to have a seriously lower first gear, a somewhat lower second, and a slightly lower third, but the other three are fine.  With the IDS even 55-60 in sixth gives no complaints.  That's a little more than a third the way to redline, so isn't lugging if you don't wonk it open.  I know overall gearing effects acceleration across the board, but if the main problem is acceleration for passing in sixth, can't we tipple that little lever on the left and use fifth for a while?