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[fxdjerry]

Here's a good one: I listed 05 seeg in selling section on this site.Got someone interested from Fla.Turns out we knew some of same people(small world) I gave a price of$27k Some locals checked out the bike for him last minute he found one closer to his home $1k less. I would have liked to sell him the bike because I know it's a good one. I think he did the right thing buying closer to home for $1k less(even tho my bike is better) [smiley=laugh.gif] Well any way after a nice pone call I do a little math. Turns out I would have lost $1250 dollars if I sold the bike because of tax. So the dealer has actually put me in a position where I have to trade it in to him. Because whatever he gives me on the trade don't get taxed just the difference does. If your state don't have sales tax all this don't make any sense. But tax-a-choo-zits will even get me with a hefty exise tax a lttle later when I least expect it. [smiley=cry2.gif]

[Twolanerider]

Here's a good one: I listed 05 seeg in selling section on this site.Got someone interested from Fla.Turns out we knew some of same people(small world) I gave a price of$27k Some locals checked out the bike for him last minute he found one closer to his home $1k less. I would have liked to sell him the bike because I know it's a good one. I think he did the right thing buying closer to home for $1k less(even tho my bike is better) [smiley=laugh.gif] Well any way after a nice pone call I do a little math. Turns out I would have lost $1250 dollars if I sold the bike because of tax. So the dealer has actually put me in a position where I have to trade it in to him. Because whatever he gives me on the trade don't get taxed just the difference does. If your state don't have sales tax all this don't make any sense. But tax-a-choo-zits will even get me with a hefty exise tax a lttle later when I least expect it. [smiley=cry2.gif]

Jerry I'm obviously not grasping all the details here.  If you pay sales tax on a vehicle when it's purchased (and not when it's sold) how is not selling the bike now saving you any money on sales tax?  You also wrote that somehow the dealer had put you in a position of having to trade the bike in.  What did the dealer do (something administratively?) to cause this predicament?

In my home state we do like you seem to suggest is the case in Massachusetts.  That is the amount of sales tax on a new vehicle is based on the cost of the new vehicle minus the sale price of a vehicle just turned.  In our case it can be multiple vehicles just sold actually; so long as they're within the past 180 days (I think that's right, might be 90 days).

I guess I can understand if Mass is limiting that allowance if the used vehicle is sold out of state.  In that case, after all, they're not recouping what you're not paying in sales tax on your new bike from the guy that just bought your old one.  State sales tax is, after all, a state collection.  So if that's how the Florida purchase comes in to play I understand what's going on.  Still would like to have a clue how and what the dealer has done to cause the potential for expense though.  That way I can avoid it if it ever comes up in my future  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[WFP]

Jerry I'm obviously not grasping all the details here.  If you pay sales tax on a vehicle when it's purchased (and not when it's sold) how is not selling the bike now saving you any money on sales tax?  You also wrote that somehow the dealer had put you in a position of having to trade the bike in.  What did the dealer do (something administratively?) to cause this predicament?

In my home state we do like you seem to suggest is the case in Massachusetts.  That is the amount of sales tax on a new vehicle is based on the cost of the new vehicle minus the sale price of a vehicle just turned.  In our case it can be multiple vehicles just sold actually; so long as they're within the past 180 days (I think that's right, might be 90 days).

I guess I can understand if Mass is limiting that allowance if the used vehicle is sold out of state.  In that case, after all, they're not recouping what you're not paying in sales tax on your new bike from the guy that just bought your old one.  State sales tax is, after all, a state collection.  So if that's how the Florida purchase comes in to play I understand what's going on.  Still would like to have a clue how and what the dealer has done to cause the potential for expense though.  That way I can avoid it if it ever comes up in my future  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

When trading in, Car or Bike, the dealer is allowed to "write down" the amount of the trade BEFORE taxes.  Jerry, what you are forgetting is that the Buyer of your private sale is responsible for "sales tax".  It's all a shell game.  When I bought my new truck, the dealer offered me only $2K for my trade in.  In MA, that would have reduced my sales taxe liability by (0.05*2000) or $100.  I sold the truck to a private party for $6000.  Net gain of $3900.

The Harley dealers will only give you wholesale value at best.

Now, I usually trade in for convenience since I just can't deal with all the crank calls and wasted test rides selling on my own.

/Bill

[Tonys]

Unless your dealer is offering you retail on your trade, sell it and you will be $money ahead. Buyer pays the sales tax on your bike.  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[fxdjerry]

I guess I was not clear in my post. First the dealer is giving me a very good deal. I really can't use the actual numbers but I'll try to explain my perception better let's say I get $25000 in trade for the 05 and the selling price for 06 is $35000 well there is a $10000 dollar difference.
so $10000 x .05=$500.00 I owe in sales tax . Total price is now $35500 dollars right? [smiley=1syellow1.gif]

Now let's say I sold the bike outright for $27000 so now 35000-27000=$8000 right? So now I come up with the 8000+27000=$35000 but only now I still have to add the sales tax so 35000x .05=1750 so $35000 + 1750 = $36750. [smiley=6.gif]

So if I trade I pay $35500 and if I sell (at 27000 to private buyer) I pay $36750 [smiley=confused5.gif]

I have not figured what a break even price for the bike would be or even what price I coulld make a profit at but I doubt that anybody would pay. So that's why I say the dealer has me. And he will still make money on both ends and BTW he should. Just a question of how much? [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[WFP]

I guess I was not clear in my post. First the dealer is giving me a very good deal. I really can't use the actual numbers but I'll try to explain my perception better let's say I get $25000 in trade for the 05 and the selling price for 06 is $35000 well there is a $10000 dollar difference.
so $10000 x .05=$500.00 I owe in sales tax . Total price is now $35500 dollars right? [smiley=1syellow1.gif]

Now let's say I sold the bike outright for $27000 so now 35000-27000=$8000 right? So now I come up with the 8000+27000=$35000 but only now I still have to add the sales tax so 35000x .05=1750 so $35000 + 1750 = $36750. [smiley=6.gif]

So if I trade I pay $35500 and if I sell (at 27000 to private buyer) I pay $36750 [smiley=confused5.gif]

I have not figured what a break even price for the bike would be or even what price I coulld make a profit at but I doubt that anybody would pay. So that's why I say the dealer has me. And he will still make money on both ends and BTW he should. Just a question of how much? [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

35000 + tax(1750) = 36750 - 27000 (Sale of old bike) = $9,750 out of pocket
35000 - 25000 (Tradein) =10000 + tax (500) = $10,500 out of pocket.

I'd sell the bike separately and use the 750 for accessories!

[WFP]

Your Breakeven point is $26250 in this case.

35000+1750=36750 - 26250 = 10,500 out of pocket.

[fxdjerry]

Your Breakeven point is $26250 in this case.

35000+1750=36750 - 26250 = 10,500 out of pocket.

Thanks for clarifying that cyphering for me ! [smiley=beerchug.gif]

The old "out of pocket"  get's me everytime[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[WFP]

The only other comment I will make is that it is often a shell game especially with a trade.  The dealer has an amout he wants to take from us.

In the New England HD world, you would be lucky to get an MSRP dealer to give you more than wholesale value for trade.  Those that mark up their bikes above msrp, may give you more for the trade but in the end, they get their money.

You can still find a deal though.  Sometimes, they are willing to give you a little to get it off the lot...but this is usually with cars....not HDs.

The best you can hope is for a good relationship...unfortunately, the 2 dealers nearest to me are not high on my service list since I am not part of their IN crowd.

/Bill

[fxdjerry]

The only other comment I will make is that it is often a shell game especially with a trade.  The dealer has an amout he wants to take from us.

In the New England HD world, you would be lucky to get an MSRP dealer to give you more than wholesale value for trade.  Those that mark up their bikes above msrp, may give you more for the trade but in the end, they get their money.

You can still find a deal though.  Sometimes, they are willing to give you a little to get it off the lot...but this is usually with cars....not HDs.

The best you can hope is for a good relationship...unfortunately, the 2 dealers nearest to me are not high on my service list since I am not part of their IN crowd.

/Bill

Well I know what you mean. I did over the last couple of years buy two CVO bikes from current dealer Kelly's in Billerica Ma.  I had not been there since 1995 or so when I traded a 91 flhtp. Market is a little different today and this dealer is not afraid to change with it. So I go back as a repeat customer. They do know me now and that helps. Big reason why I buy the third CVO bike. Besides that I don't think anyone wants the green bike anyway. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=nixweiss.gif]