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[1abastarsmda]

Regarding my 09 SE Ultra, I just spoke to the service manager at the HD dealer and asked him what it will cost to have a SERT installed and calibrated.  He told me that will only take about a half hour.  He said it's just a quick simple download.  Should I be concerned?  I thought that this was some expert process that would take much longer.

More details.  By the time I take it in, I will have the 2.25" Fullsacs, Zipper's Maxflo Air Cleaner, and catalytic converter removed.  I only have about 300 miles on the bike at this point.

He did mention that when I have 1000 miles on the bike, he would like to dyno it at that time. 

So my questions are:  1)  Should I be concerned?  2)  Is a simple download the best thing to do at this point?  3)  Does it sound like he is planning on fine-tuning it once I have 1000 miles on it and able to have it put on the dyno?  (I know that's something I can ask him myself)

This shop did my last bike when it had about 200 miles on it using a PC III and I took it elsewhere at a later date for a dyno and was told that the dealer that did this really did a great job tuning it, and showed me where he was doing one minor tweak (which kept the bike smooth at an absolute crawl speed).  He identified exactly the only problem I had with the way it ran from his dyno run, which was the bike being somewhat jerky between 0 - 10 mph.  I guess what I'm saying is that they did a nice job for me last time.

I'm almost assuming at this point that all the questions I need to ask from another thread about what they plan on doing, will be directed at what their intentions are once I get 1000 miles on it and put it on the dyno.  Does that sound like I'm on the right page here or not?

[ice6900]

yep at this stage (300miles) the dealer just wants to download a base map, then after the run in period at 1000miles he suggests do the full dyno run, soundz reasonable to me,
the base map should get u running pretty good,
basically on a dyno run your gonna scream the a$$ off the motor on 30 or so runs to acheive an optimum tune, not a good idea on a new motor.   

[AXIL]

  ice6900 is right but thay should also richin up the afr's and decel enleanment with out a dyno run.
  if thay are only going to install the canned map go some ware else.   axil

[1abastarsmda]

I guess that's part of my question...will the canned map richen the AFR or is that something that I need to point them in a direction?  From what was just responded, I'm assuming the canned map won't do that, or not adequately.

[AXIL]

1ABA, the canned map maybe a little better, but is going to be close to what you have already have and with the changes
that you have made, exh. and throttle body, will need some more adjustments to keep from being too lean while you
break in the engine from a heat stand point.  a little richer is better . i hope i was a little more clear this time. sorry.
                                    good luck        axil

[1abastarsmda]

Thanks...appreciate the help.

[ultrafxr]

There is another school of thought about when to dyno tune a new motor.  I always thought the motor should be broken in also.  But the first dyno tune on my 110 was after it had cylinders replaced the first time due to the '110 problem.'  And when after a second catastrophic failure the moco sent me a brand new motor it was dyno tuned before I ever got the bike back.  Runs great, uses no oil.  Several of my friends have also had their brand new bikes set up with exhaust and a/c and dyno tuned before they picked up their bikes with no ill effect.

[eddfive]

I also believe that the Dyno is the best and fastest way to seat the rings in a motor.  I have tuned a number of bikes lately that were fresh builds, heat cycled a couple of times and then tuned on the dyno.  The way the tuning process goes you end up getting cylinder pressures up which help in seating the rings.  Breaking in a bike like never going above 3000 or 4000 rpm does not achieve the same cylinder pressures so the rings take longer to seat.  I have done this method on 95's, 103's, 107's, 110's, 117's and my own 124 just recently.  The customers have not reported any ill effects.  A couple of engine builders I know did not like this idea but have since been convinced with the results from doing it this way.  One engine builder told me he would rather find out in the first few miles if a component is going to fail than get the call from a customer broke down somewhere that the bike broke.  The dyno cell is a much more controlled environment.  Why run a bike with a tuning map that is just close for breakin not knowing if you are lean or rich or timing is not right.  IMO this is not good for breakin.  This is and will always be a highly debated subject, I have data and customers that have no issue but sometimes the "harley lore" takes over and turns this issue into a debate.  This is what has worked for me and several engine builders very successfully.

[AXIL]

 i disagree, imho the rings seat fairly quickly but my main concern is with piston skirt to cylinder "seasoning". about
six years ago a few of us in the shop did a little survey, one set of bikes were rode easy for fivehunderd miles and the
other set of bikes were run hard out of the gate.  all were new stock tc88's. at the 1,000mi. service we did a
leak down test and the difference was two-three percent infaver of the easy brake in. I'll stick with the brake in time.
                                                       axil

[Mr. Wizard]

eddfive has nailed it down. IMO..

As long as you go through the warm up steps with a new motor before cranking it to 6+ grand you should be OK.

There is also debate about breaking in a new motor and to what effect it has on the rings. I'm old school. Start it, warm it up and haul butt. When breaking in hard the rings get a chance with the higher rpms to seat 360* properly by mushrooming to the cylinder walls while low rpm will soft seat them and take longer.

To 1abastarsmda ...

If you want to do it right, take your SERT to an Indy (independent shop) and don't any HD canned map for very long. There are some placed within the map that the HD Dyno guys around here will not/cannot change.

Tell your Indy to ...

Leave the A/R ratio settings on the map alone.
Change the Closed Loop Bias for both the front and rear cyl to 759 in all cells.
Change only the VE (volumetric efficiency) cells when testing.
Change the Decel Enleanment cells to prevent decel pop on that bagger if you have any. (messing with the 0 throttle position cells on a fly by wire bike isn't smart)

If you want it dialed in to your true weight and wind resistance then find someone with a Datona Twin Scan II and Wego to help dial in the Dyno run. The DTS will find you more of that bottom low end torque that we bagger guys want and will help keep your mileage in check.


Cheers

[Mr. Wizard]

Oh, btw..  1abastarsmda

If you haven't purchased your SERT yet check ebay real quick. There is a guy that I've purchased from before that has a few older style SERT's for 150 bucks. He has 100% pos feedback. I bought another one from him yesterday. No, we are not buddies and i have no affiliation with him. Just do a search on SE race tuner, he had 3 left last night.

There isn't a huge difference in the old style SERT and the new Pro SERT except the software and the fact that the new style can read maps both ways and of course the cost.

If you get the SERT, HD will not give you a copy of the map. If you go to an Indy, take a flash drive or writeable CD or floppy to take the map home with you. This way if you do more to your bike you don't have to start over again. The new Pro SERT will let you read and save a copy of your map on the ECM before tinkering.

Hope this helps if even a little.

[Fired00d]

Oh, btw..  1abastarsmda

If you haven't purchased your SERT yet check ebay real quick. There is a guy that I've purchased from before that has a few older style SERT's for 150 bucks. He has 100% pos feedback. I bought another one from him yesterday. No, we are not buddies and i have no affiliation with him. Just do a search on SE race tuner, he had 3 left last night.

There isn't a huge difference in the old style SERT and the new Pro SERT except the software and the fact that the new style can read maps both ways and of course the cost.

If you get the SERT, HD will not give you a copy of the map. If you go to an Indy, take a flash drive or writeable CD or floppy to take the map home with you. This way if you do more to your bike you don't have to start over again. The new Pro SERT will let you read and save a copy of your map on the ECM before tinkering.

Hope this helps if even a little.

This is not true. It is up to each dealer whether they give you a copy or not. I have received copies of maps for my bike when tuned by a dealer.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Mr. Wizard]

Fired00d

Thanks for the clarification. I should have stated that the ones around here that I have met will not. "Proprietary Information" was their reasoning. Since I ran into this stupid brick wall, I do my own now.

My apologies and thanks again.

[skreminegul07]

Fired00d

Thanks for the clarification. I should have stated that the ones around here that I have met will not. "Proprietary Information" was their reasoning. Since I ran into this stupid brick wall, I do my own now.

My apologies and thanks again.

It's not proprietary, it's yours.  Same as having an X ray taken, you paid it's yours to take.  I got mine ansd at first they resisted.  It was a condition of my having them tune it.

[Mr. Wizard]

Yep, I argued that point. Got the SM to get it when they were closed.   

I paid for it, it should be mine.


Oh, the guy with the SERTs for sale...  he went up 15 bucks. Didn't make a mistake about the 150. Can show a screen shot of my 150 purchase since i am new here. Just want to set the record straight.