Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LarryB]

Why does that surprise you. as often as I go to vegas. I got riding partners out there when i go. and some of them come here. because I am such a joy to ride with.

[Spazz]

Other than the sound or octave being pleasant, I am more interested in the performance aspect of the cores, specifically the 2.25's. If i am going to install a high flow air filter and either a supersert or fuel pack or whatever, i don't want to waste those on pipes that breathe okay, just slightly better than stock but not as good as true aftermarket pipes. Even Steve at Fullsac doesn't give a good answer to this question. Can anyone tell me that the new cores will breathe at least as good as V&H or similar? My dealer is trying to talk me out of changing the cores and to get either slip ons or full systems (I really don't need to change the header pipes as we do not have c/c's in Canada). I wish someone could give me the definitive answer without telling me how nice they sound or that they are cheap to change or that they maintain the original looks of the bike. I am looking for performace answers please. Don't make me go to the Goldwing sight to ask (OMG did I say that?)

[dartman]

Spazz, I have dissected just about every brand of muffler ever made. V&H Bassani ,S&S, Cobra, Wild Pigs, Rush, Supertrapp, SE,Samson, ETC, IMHO other then Supertrapp With there Tuneable Discs, And the tuneable Bub Mufflers there is very little difference, In Muffler baffles, in fact some of the major Brand baffles will interchange, I am not a performance addict but many of my friends are, and from most dyno runs  Ive seen, it takes one awesome engine to support 2.25 baffles without a noticeable loss of low end torque, 3 additional HP at 5800 rpms is ok for bragging rights but not at the loss of 5 hp at 3000 rpms ,sometimes less is more.

[Highjagger]

I read that the SE-pipes allways had the best results in performance compaired to all others , isn`t that truth anymore ?
 And the FatCat should bring the best torque ( as good as the thunderheader which is louder ) .
If i would live on your side of the world ( without decibel limit ) , i would install one of these three options , depending on good looking .

[Spazz]

Dartman,

Are you saying the Fullsac's lose low end torque or power. Your answer confused me. Must be having a 70's moment.

Also, when you compared them, did you compare them to the Fullsacs? BTW, the pipes i am going to change to if I do at all are the monters ovals from V&H.
And Highbagger, the SE pipes NEVER had the best results when compared to aftermarket pipes, maybe they perform better against standard H-D pipes but that is where they end.

[Highjagger]

OK , then I read it wrong perhaps , ( I was astonished by reading that , but what the hell do i know , i am just learning ) THXS .

I found it : Here it is : reply 1 : http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=30233.msg500100#msg500100

A while back (Hot Bike) Baggers magazine tested the performance of several different slip-ons and the SE's came out on top in every category.

[Spazz]

ahhhhh, you meant Super Elite, not Screaming Eagle. And that magazine's opinion is not my bible, but I want to keep on track with the Fullsac cores and not other pipes. We can all show comparisons of many pipes from many sources and they might all have different results and opinions. I am trying to get the answer to the performance aspect of the Fullsac cores.

[1abastarsmda]

Spazz, I have dissected just about every brand of muffler ever made. V&H Bassani ,S&S, Cobra, Wild Pigs, Rush, Supertrapp, SE,Samson, ETC, IMHO other then Supertrapp With there Tuneable Discs, And the tuneable Bub Mufflers there is very little difference, In Muffler baffles, in fact some of the major Brand baffles will interchange, I am not a performance addict but many of my friends are, and from most dyno runs  Ive seen, it takes one awesome engine to support 2.25 baffles without a noticeable loss of low end torque, 3 additional HP at 5800 rpms is ok for bragging rights but not at the loss of 5 hp at 3000 rpms ,sometimes less is more.

So are you now telling me that I am losing low-end torque and hp by going with the 2.25" Fullsac?  It sounds like, from what you are saying, is that I should have gone with the 1.75" to get the max performance out of these new baffles, but of course that would also lower my decibel level at the same time.  I'm guessing that I'm cutting into my back pressure with the bigger baffles.  Am I getting a clear picture here?  If I'm reading into this correctly, I wish someone would have pointed this out to me before I purchased the 2.25".  I may have gone to the 2" to try to get in the middle and have the best of both worlds.

[1abastarsmda]

ahhhhh, you meant Super Elite, not Screaming Eagle. And that magazine's opinion is not my bible, but I want to keep on track with the Fullsac cores and not other pipes. We can all show comparisons of many pipes from many sources and they might all have different results and opinions. I am trying to get the answer to the performance aspect of the Fullsac cores.

He meant Supertrapp SE series pipes that are made for touring models...not Screamin' Eagle pipes.

[Spazz]

It appears you are the only one to explain this to me and I thank you for it. You have now pushed me to new pipes and not Fullsacs. Since you  tell it like it is, considering the Canadian bikes do NOT have a c/c and also that I have chosen V&H Monster Ovals as my muffler, would you change the headers to the V&H power duals or leave the stock H-D headers on?
Second quick question if you could please, I am changing to high flow air cleaner, but I still am unsure about Super SERT or V&H Fuel pack. Do you have an opinion on those 2 items as well?

[Highjagger]

Aha , SE means super elite ( in German - supertrapp - Kess tech ) .
 I had the opinion that SE means Screaming Eagle .
Learning every day . 

[HOGMIKE]

So are you now telling me that I am losing low-end torque and hp by going with the 2.25" Fullsac?  It sounds like, from what you are saying, is that I should have gone with the 1.75" to get the max performance out of these new baffles, but of course that would also lower my decibel level at the same time.  I'm guessing that I'm cutting into my back pressure with the bigger baffles.  Am I getting a clear picture here?  If I'm reading into this correctly, I wish someone would have pointed this out to me before I purchased the 2.25".  I may have gone to the 2" to try to get in the middle and have the best of both worlds.

Sounds to me like you are ready for a dyno session with different baffles/mufflers to get you the most HP/TQ. Remember, it's always a compromise with sound/power. Decide where you do most of your riding, is it at 2500 rpm? or 3500 rpm? Make your choice where, check out the forum here to see what combo's most are using: good starting point. Something like a Thunderheader makes good power, but, can you take the noise?? They don't call it "Thunder" header for fun!
If you were closer here, you could ride 2 of my bikes to compare the 2" and the 1 3/4".  Both exhausts are similar in sound with the 2" being a little louder on the throttle.
Yes, my 2cents!

[GregKhougaz]

$.02 more:  Maybe I can articulate this in a different way.  Hogmike is correct!  First, read here:  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=27693.0 to see what results guys are getting with different set ups.  Don't confuse peak hp with usable power!  The 110" is a torque maker (not really monster) and certainly not a high revving hp maker.  Note that HD has always promoted torque over HP as that is what you really use for most street applications. 

First question, where do you want your power?  Ask this because it is very difficult to obtain hight peak hp and good torque over the lower and mid range.  For me, a street rider, I want gobs of low end with good mid range power extended as high as possible.  That does not ususally equate to peak hp.  It's not the exhaust alone, it's the system.  Does the breather work with the throttle body, cam, compression, porting, exhaust and finally back pressure.  On the stock 110, for example, true duals do not have enough back pressure and you'll loose torque (power) all other things being equal.  You'd have to change cams and pistons to take real advantage of the loss of back pressure.

Dartman is also correct, a couple of peak hp does nothing to help street riders unless you keep your motor at that RPM all the time!  Look at the dyno results in the thread above and then decide what system (breather, ecm adjustment, exhaust) you want to go with.  You want power over the band, not just peak.  Hope this helps. 

[Spazz]

I Guess our bikes are different here in Canada. The CVO brochure for us claims the SEUC4 had 113 lbs. torque as stock. Maybe the lack of a c/c is the reason for the huge difference. You can see the results by goingt to; www.harleydavidson.ca  (canadian site)

[dartman]

The Brochure HP is measured at the crank on a test stand, Dyno HP is measured at the rear wheel, there is a hugh variable between the raw HP and the actual useable Hp that reaches the street.