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[hard10]

Yes indeed.  We wouldn't have this problem if those pesky people would just drop dead at 65 like they used to, but with all the advances in medical intervention there are just too many people living past traditional retirement age.  I don't know of an easy answer, since I'm guessing not many folks will voluntarily agree to kick the bucket to make life easier for the kids.  Too bad our "leaders" chose to ignore this problem along with the excessive debt (private and government) problem.  Seems our government leaders are guilty of the same short sighted management as those folks in the auto business.  Gives me a lot of confidence in them being able to tell Detroit how to run the show. 

Jerry

There ya go Jerry! You've just solved the problem! Make the drug companies that produce all those meds pay for the additional expense. You're a genius.

[RJ749]

Fred Thompson has the answer:

[iski]

"telling a fat man the only way to lose weight is to eat more donuts."

"Ask not what your country can spend for you, ask what you can spend for your country."

Fred has some serious medicine in his satirical video.  Hmmmmmmm..........

1 sorta extreme solution:

[FLSTFI Dave]

Gee, I hope this new "car czar" will be as effcient as the gummint drug czars have been

and

after the gummint blows $$??? billions, the 3 auto companies may get to go bankrupt anyway.


When oil companies failed in the 80's, the USA population was not interested in bailouts.  Same deal with the textile industry mass failures as well as other entire industries.  Times have changed.....

Oil industry does not have unions.  Textile union was weak were there was one.

Detroit Auto companies have the most powerful Union, the UAW.  It's in the Dems interest to keep the troubled three afloat, so the UAW can stay in business and keep funding the Democrats....

[iski]

Oil industry does not have unions.  Textile union was weak were there was one.

Detroit Auto companies have the most powerful Union, the UAW.  It's in the Dems interest to keep the troubled three afloat, so the UAW can stay in business and keep funding the Democrats....

Exactly. A bailout is a sop to the UAW.  The Big 3 CEOs are dancing to the tune of their unions for the benefit of Congress.  Bankruptcy looms after massive monies are wasted.

Difficult to tell who is more corrupt: the gummint, unions, their lobbyists, or the CEOs.  Not difficult to figure out who will pay: us, our kids, our grandkids, their kids......


About 5 years ago, noticed some folks I knew/worked with were retiring out of the USA.  They are ahead of the curve.

[miker]

http://belizeretirement.org/


With enough interest maybe Cvo City. 

Tax Breaks
Peaceful Nation
English Speaking
Good Educational System
Sub-tropical Climate all Year Long
Easy Access to Land for Development and Construction of Retirement Home
Close Proximity to the US, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean
Strong Stable Belize Dollar
Abundance of Natural Resources
Breathtakingly Beautiful
Friendly People

[SPIDERMAN]

Exactly. A bailout is a sop to the UAW.  The Big 3 CEOs are dancing to the tune of their unions for the benefit of Congress.  Bankruptcy looms after massive monies are wasted.

Difficult to tell who is more corrupt: the gummint, unions, their lobbyists, or the CEOs.  Not difficult to figure out who will pay: us, our kids, our grandkids, their kids......


About 5 years ago, noticed some folks I knew/worked with were retiring out of the USA.  They are ahead of the curve.

Yeah some of them even bought shorefront property in Mexico, built beautiful homes on it and then had the Mexican government pass a law that no foreigner could own land within 5 miles of the ocean and about 250 Americans lost their life savings. If you think I have no trust of my own government, my trust of any foreign government is even less. I'll stay here in the USA no matter how bad it gets, go live in Appalachia with Otis, Hubbard and the HBRR in the wintah and up in Maine in the summah.

B B

[Hugh Janis]

My Brother has a plan to retire to New Zealand.  Maybe he's into sheep.

[iski]

Better than sheep being into him, I suppose.


Remember reading about those Americans in Mexico getting bumped off the beach.  Venezuela (with those low cost islands) is no longer a garden spot for retirees either.


One of my plans was to retire to sunny, warm, Antarctica, but the global warming deal just is not moving fast enough.

Belize sounds nice.....

[RJ749]

My Brother has a plan to retire to New Zealand.  Maybe he's into sheep.

Awfully nice down there and not too many people.

Not sure on the exchange or expense of living.

[miker]

I still prefer to be attached to a continent, islands are small unless it is a continent.
Australia maybe.

[RJ749]

Sweden unveils auto aid; no state buyout
Volvo, Saab welcome state aid
Sweden's automakers have reacted positively to their government's plans to provide up to 25 billion kronor (2.36 billion euros) in credit guarantees and emergency loans.
Volvo and Saab said they would decide in the next few days whether to apply for any of the funding that was announced Thursday.
Eric Geers, spokesman for Saab, told Automotive News Europe: "We are extremely positive. We have to work out the details, but this is a good step from the government with whom we have been having good discussions."
Geers said it was too early to say whether Saab would be applying for any of the funding, although it is thought the General Motors-owned brand will apply for some money.
Volvo was also happy about the announcement, which it said would also help suppliers.

[arcticdude]

I still prefer to be attached to a continent, islands are small unless it is a continent.
Australia maybe.

Oz is a nice place, but they must import essentially everything but sheep.  The weirdest thing we experienced was the lack of drinkable water.  You'd think, being a large island, there'd be lots of water.  There is, but it's brackish enough that you can't really drink it.  Food is quite expensive, but it does help keep you thin!   No where's near as many fat people.  Everybody lives on or near the coasts.  No real highway system, as we're used to.  They have no basic production system.  No steel works, no plastics, no mining, nothing near what the states have.  A coke in McDonald's is $2.50 for a small.  Exchange rate is about 1:1.  I'd like to go back and see the western areas.  Still a neat place to see, though.  No gun ownership, to speak of.  Crime rate is close to ours.  While we were there last year, an off duty cop had the snot beat out of him by a bunch of 14 year olds in Melbourne.  Just because he was walking threw downtown with his girlfriend.  Weird to eat a "sheepdog".  What looks like a hotdog, but it's made of mutton.

Even with all our current problems, the states are tough to beat.

[SPIDERMAN]

Drifting off topic to a degree, but in keeping with our discussion of free market economy. I was thinking today about the way people like member Icybay operate their business. Icybay for those of you who don't know him operates a fleet of fishing boats, one of which (Icybay) fishes crab out of Dutch Harbor in the Bering Sea (as in Deadliest Catch) Now as I understand it, the pay system works on dividing up the profit of the trip via a formula whereby the boat owner gets his expenses paid and a share, the captain gets a share and the crew share a percentage of the rest in equal shares with newbies (greenhorns) getting 1/2 share. If you've seen the show, you know that the crew members make anywhere from $5k to $20k for a 10 day trip. It's not a stretch to think that a guy like Icybay could offer a flat $2,500 per trip and find plenty of takers for the positions aboard the boats. He'd more than double his profits and the guys working for him would still be making $250/day which is pretty good money for a lot of people. But that industry doesn't work that way. It's a system built on hard work and a fair system of sharing the profit. Imagine of every business in the USA operated the same way ?

Just food for thought

B B

[RJ749]

I guess in the short term we'll now see what effect the failure of the bailout may have:

Automotive News

THE AUTO INDUSTRY BAILOUT

Industry aid fails in the Senate


Reid predicts a "very, very bad Christmas for many Americans"

Harry Stoffer

Automotive News | December 11, 2008 - 10:43 pm EST
UPDATED: 12/11/08 11:57 p.m EST


WASHINGTON -- A bill to provide emergency loans to Detroit automakers is dead for now, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said late Thursday.

“We have not been able to get this over the finish line,” Reid said.

Reid said he dreads what will happen on Wall Street on Friday. “It’s not going to be a pretty sight,’’ he said. He also said the failure of negotiations will mean a “a very, very bad Christmas” for many Americans.

General Motors and Chrysler LLC say they need federal loans to avoid running out of cash within weeks.

``We are deeply disappointed that agreement could not be reached tonight in the Senate despite the best bipartisan efforts,’’ GM said in a statement. ``We will assess all of our options to continue our restructuring and to obtain the means to weather the current economic crisis.’’

Economists, researchers and some lawmakers have warned that failure of one or more of the car companies will shatter a U.S. economy already in recession.

Markets across the Asia-Pacific region were down more than three percent after news the talks had collapsed, with Japan's Nikkei average and Hong Kong's Hang Seng both down more than five percent.

U.S. crude prices fell by nearly $2 to $46.11 a barrel.

The White House said it would evaluate its options in light of the collapse of the bailout legislation.

White House spokesman Tony Fratto declined to say what those options included. The Bush administration has resisted Democrats' past demands to use some money from the $700 billion bailout package approved in October to help struggling financial institutions to help the automakers.

Reid’s assessment followed a day of negotiations in which senators tried to reconcile a House-passed bill that had been negotiated by the Bush White House and Democratic leaders of Congress with an alternative favored by some Senate Republicans.

Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, blamed the UAW for being unwilling to accept GOP demands that Detroit 3 workers accept parity in pay, benefits and work rules with import-brand factory employees.

Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., author of the GOP alternative, said workers would not accept a deadline for the parity demand.

"We are three words away" from a deal, Corker said.

Senate Banking Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said the failure of negotiations was political, but he worries what it will mean for the broader economy.

Together the Detroit 3 CEOs say they need at least $34 billion in federal money to get through the economic downturn.

A subsequent procedural vote confirmed Reid’s assessments. Sixty “yes” votes were needed to move ahead with industry-aid legislation. The vote was 52-35 in favor of aid.

Some options for the industry remain.

Congress could come back early next year -- when Democrats have a wider majority in the Senate -- with new legislation.

Or the Bush administration could relent and decide at any time to make direct loans to automakers from the $700 billion that has been approved for rescue of the financial system.

Democratic lawmakers have maintained all along that the administration had that authority. Reid reaffirmed that view Thursday night.

Some lawmakers have contended that the Federal Reserve always has authority under laws enacted during the Great Depression to make emergency loans to almost any economically important entity that can’t get credit elsewhere.

Reuters contributed to this report

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081211/ANA02/812112862/1200