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[RJ749]

Really, where is the savings in that?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Power water lights and not paying for cars sitting around I guess, plus trying to get days supply in line with sales.

[SPIDERMAN]

The big three are giving the USA stock options in exchange for this bailout.

Sounds like the best deal since we got New York for some beads - - - - NOT!

B B

[RJ749]

The big three are giving the USA stock options in exchange for this bailout.

Sounds like the best deal since we got New York for some beads - - - - NOT!

B B

There you go


Toyota Vehicle Operations to Post Loss
Toyota's mainstay vehicle operations are likely to post their first ever loss for the fiscal year through March 2009, highlighting the dire conditions faced by global automakers. According to the Associated Press, Toyota's standalone operating result will be a loss for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009. The Toyota group of companies will manage to post a profit for the fiscal year through March 2009. Toyota is forecasting a 550 billion yen ($6.2 billion) profit, less than a third of what it racked up the previous fiscal year, on 23 trillion yen ($258.4 billion) sales, down 12.5 percent on year. Toyota has never reported a full fiscal year loss since it began disclosing operating profit in 1941. But Japanese automakers are getting hammered by plunging auto sales in the key U.S. market and elsewhere. The surging yen, which erodes overseas earnings, have also battered their bottom line. The dollar has fallen to 13-year lows below 90 yen. "It looks as though Toyota will fall into red ink for the full year," said Mamoru Katou, auto analyst at Tokai Tokyo Research. "Things have clearly gotten worse since the earlier outlook of breaking even." For more on Toyota's outlook, click here.

[Admiral]

Toyota Vehicle Operations to Post Loss
Toyota's mainstay vehicle operations are likely to post their first ever loss for the fiscal year through March 2009,

The dollar has fallen to 13-year lows below 90 yen. "It looks as though Toyota will fall into red ink for the full year," said Mamoru Katou, auto analyst at Tokai Tokyo Research. "Things have clearly gotten worse since the earlier outlook of breaking even." For more on Toyota's outlook, click here.

Buy American while you still can !!!

 

[SPIDERMAN]

Somewhere in this thread, somebody quotes 178,000 current UAW jobs. During Ronald Reagan's presidency, the total of US Shipyard workers was at least that if not more. The majority of those workers belonged to a union called UMSWA. The Reagan administration tried mightily to push through congress legislation aimed at keeping American Shipyards competative with foreign yards. At best, they were able to offer some subsidies to American companies that had their ships built in the USA and also President Reagan wanted a very large Navy fleet. But after Reagan left office, all effort to retain America's ability to build ships ceased. UMSWA went out of business and what few shipyard jobs there are left in the USA are primarily non-union or lumped in with other unions. The point being, the demise of the major shipyard union did nothing to preserve jobs. What galls me is that well over 150,000 jobs were lost in the ensuing years and nobody cared. There are less than 30,000 shipbuilders in our nation as I write this. That's the cost of a free market economy. And you know, I agree. If the USA is to be a true free market economy business has to sink or swim on it's own. Our government cannot go around Nationalising corporate America or we cease to become what we are. But yet we find ourselves engaged in a level of corporate socialism unprecedented in the history of our nation. Even during the great depression, the central government's efforts did not fall to bailing out failing businesses, but rather to create government entities such as the WPA and the CCC aimed at creating jobs while the private sector made whatever corrections were needed and began to reivive. Many of our nations greatest infrastructure projects came about with WPA and CCC workers. The media and the politicians have done a great job of diverting our attention from the true crisis we find ourselves in at this time. Are we truly a free nation or we to become a socialist nation. Are we to move into the future using the business/government model of Japan, Taiwan and Korea as our guide ? It is not taxpayer dollars being spent here my friends it is our very soul as a nation.

B B

[icybay]

BB, I agree.  And it will be next to impossible to resurrect the water dependent industries after the land is urbanized.  Look at Portland, the waterfront is almost all condos now, once banished the fishing fleet will never be able to return.

If I may quote a Nobel-laurate economist " The bailout was like a massive transfusion to a patient suffering from internal bleeding, and nothing was being done about the source of the problem. " 


Disclaimer  Hey, I didn't start this non motorcycle related thread that may border on  the "P" word

[RJ749]

It won't take long to know if this "loan" is in fact that or if it is a "grant".

First quarter of 2009 will tell.  The one thing that is for sure is the auto industry has the flu and no one is immune.  With speculation that Toyota will be in the red soon the elimination of over capacity which has driven dealer profit lower may finally get controlled to allow the industry to restructure the dealer count and make the industry viable for the manufacturers that survive as well as the dealers that do.

As to the political nature of all of this, it isn't any longer one or another party that will solve this, it is the entire country and the politicians that need to get a grip on it.  Regardless, if we all cacoon and stop spending, our economy now based on consumerism is going to go through some serious constriction and it will take a long time to recover.

[grc]

............................... Are we truly a free nation or we to become a socialist nation. Are we to move into the future using the business/government model of Japan, Taiwan and Korea as our guide ? It is not taxpayer dollars being spent here my friends it is our very soul as a nation.

B B

In a perfect world and a perfect situation I would agree with you Brian.  Unfortunately, we as a nation cannot continue to allow our industries to die at the altar of "free market economics".  We are forced to compete with others who are being heavily subsidized and supported by their governments (and even our own government, as in huge tax breaks to locate plants here).  We have not had a level playing field with Japan since WWII, for instance, and now we have Korea and China with heavy government subsidies and currency manipulation taking our jobs.  The entire globalization and free trade agenda has had one underlying goal that is never spoken about in public, but it's there just the same.  Working people in this country and other high wage countries will continue to see their jobs exported to third world, low wage countries until a new equilibrium is reached.  Rather than bring the rest of the world up to our wage levels, we will be dragged down to theirs.  The end result is a return to the 2 class system of 200 years ago.  Maybe we should rename our branches of government to reflect the new vision; the Lords and the Commons, or since that has already been taken perhaps the Haves and the Have Nots.

BTW, when all the shipyards are gone, all the aircraft manufacturers are gone, all the other big manufacturers are gone (including Harley-Davidson), and all we have left in this country are a bunch of slick con artists shuffling other people's money around and taking a percentage, how long do you really think we will remain a military or economic power? 

Jerry

Icybay: the mention of Harley-Davidson should put this thread back in the "approved" column.

[SBB]

BTW, when all the shipyards are gone, all the aircraft manufacturers are gone, all the other big manufacturers are gone (including Harley-Davidson), and all we have left in this country are a bunch of slick con artists shuffling other people's money around and taking a percentage, how long do you really think we will remain a military or economic power? 

Jerry

When they are all gone we can work for Walmart, Taco Bell, Wendy's, or McDonalds!
That should be very productive!

 

[icybay]

Chip, by the time Harley Davidson is gone (to China), we can just sit back and collect our inflation adjusted Social Security checks and live the good life- that's what they told us anyway when we were paying into the system!

[graygost267]

GRC:  I agree with you 100%.  I would suggest that a good start to cleaning up the mess is to kick out the bastards that are pissing away our money and we have no say so.  The people in Congress and the Senate are getting good pay to manage the financial well being of this country.  If they can't or won't do their job, get them the hell out of office.  It5 is not Bush's job to oversee Wall Street or the other gov't agencies, it is the Congress and Senate's responsibility to manage the financial interests of this country.  Bush's primary job is to keep this country safe and maintain a strong military top protect the US interests. I'm angry that they - the Congress and Senate - have allowed this country to sink to the level it is at and they are allowed to stay in office so they can f*** up even more programs that affect the population.  Now they want to raise gasoline taxes because the revenues that were generated when prices were high are not bringing in the revenues that they once did.  The reason - people are driving less and riding smaller cars and motorcycles.  Next - Barney Frank wants to cut the military budget by 25%.  Now that makes me mad a hell.  I say that we get that worthless piece of S**t out of office and every other congressmen like Murtha and send them to Iraq or Afghanistan for a couple of years and see how they like it.  I had better shut up before I say what I think and get into trouble.  Getting down off my soap box. 

[SPIDERMAN]

Some interesting posts on this thread. Well thought out and well written (spoken) posts. I think we need a national debate on this issue. It is the pervading issue of our time. We as a nation must decide if we are to become a socialist nation on par with Canada and England on health care and social issues and Japan/Korea on economic/business issues. We cannot simply bail out one industry and ignore others. I mention shipbuilding because it is near and dear to my heart having spent 28 years in the business, but the auto industry is but the tip of the iceburg. We need to shore up our steel industry, and a 100 other heavy manufacturing industrys. Industrial capacity and superiority built this great nation and saw it through two world militray conflicts. The way things stand today as I write this we have allowed so many heavy industries to locate "offshore" I am not even certain we have the capability to protect ourselves if another world conflict were to occur. We could lose the battle before it began simply by having our supplies of durable and consumable goods cut off. My posts on this topic have not been to argue that we as a nation should not make all effort to save the auto industry, but rather that we need to take the steps necessary to rebuild our industrial base. And if that means tariffs levied against goods from China and third world nations that reduce  their ability to undercut home grown industry then so be it. We are the only nation on earth who allows every one to sell their goods here without tax or tariff and yet our own products are taxed into obscurity in those same nations. Quid pro quo. Not exactly a new concept is it since those words are latin and the language hasn't been spoken in thousands of years. I urge each of you to write (e-mail) your elected officials and speak your mind regarding our economy. I have sent e-mails to California's two Senators and received acknowledgement that they were received and read. Not that I expect Senators Boxer or Feinstein read my e-mails themselves, but the response from their aids indicated that they did indeed read what I wrote.
    I remember the America of my youth. I ask myself why we've allowed it to become what it is today and I have no answers. However, I believe that we are in the midst of a crisis of great enough import to actually gain the attention of our elected officials to the need for change. And I'm not talking the kind of change that was discussed during the recent Presidential election, but change in a return to the things that made our nation what it was when the majority of us on this site were children.

B B

[graygost267]

    Here - here Spiderman. Again you have hit on the very essence of the problem.  We, as a nation, have allowed ourselves to be swayed from the basics that were used in forming this country.  Our moral fiber has degraded to the point that God can no longer be uttered in public for fear of offending a few minority citizens and our judicial system is a joke and legislates from the bench.  The Congress and the Senate are both guilty for the exodus of our industrial base to oversees areas.  No longer can the majority influence the laws that are passed in this country.  It is the minority.  Take for instance the Proposition 8 that was just passed in California.  The people spoke and said that marriage can only be lawful if it is between a man and a woman.  Now the Gay community is up in arms about the vote and the CA Attorney General has changed his mind and says the Proposition 8 is unconstitutional after first supporting the Proposition.  Our founding fathers would have considered homosexuality as an abomination and a sin against God.  Why have we - the people - allowed such actions to take place?  We are to blame for putting people into office that have no moral stature and certainly have no thought for the people they represent.  Mercy -  I could go on all night, but now I have to get ready to go to bed so that I can go to work tomorrow and pay my taxes so the poor middle class in this country can get their welfare check - I mean tax rebate - when they paid no taxes to begin with.  We are in for some tough times my friend and we have not seen the worst of it I fear.        Stepping down for now.

[Coolbreeze]

Not to say that you guys don't have a lot of really interesting, albeit depressing things to say, but ....   isn't this a humor thread?    IOf this is what passes for humor nowdays, I'm just gonna keep cryin' in the corner... 

[grc]

Not to say that you guys don't have a lot of really interesting, albeit depressing things to say, but ....   isn't this a humor thread?    IOf this is what passes for humor nowdays, I'm just gonna keep cryin' in the corner... 

'breeze, haven't you ever read or heard a joke that was so good it brought tears to your eyes?  Well, in the interest of efficiency we have found a way to skip directly to the tears without wasting a lot of time with the joke.

Jerry