Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[trot]

Hi, this is my first post so hope I am in the right place. I am taking delivery of a new SE Ultra inMarch having got rid of my 07 Leather Top Box SE Ultra which had had a Fuel Pack fitted and Vance and Hines ovals and K &N. The bike ran awful, the exhaust popping was like a machine gun, it kept cutting out and was generally crap. Our local dealer was clueless.
I want to do a similar mod on the new bike and the dealer is recommending Monster Ovals with K& N and that HD are doing their own version of the Fuel Pack because I wont have another Fuel Pack
Talking with an independant who speciallises in HD tuning (Yeti @hogfather.co.uk) he says the fuel pack is crap and the Vance and Hines are overpriced and not brilliant quality. He recommends a Thundermax ECM and either S&S Stainless Steel Ovals or Kerker Slip on Ovals plus K&N.
I presume if I go down this path I presume HD wont honour the warranty if anything goes wrong with the engine?
Has anyone out there had experience of Thundermax etc, any advise will  be much appreciated cos I just ride bikes, I am a mechanical and technical numb nuts.
Thanks in anticipation.
Dave (aka trot)

[eddfive]

If you just want to start the bike and ride then I would suggest a tuning software program that will program the OEM Delphi computer that is on the bike.  Your choices are SEST(Harley Pro Tuner), MasterTune and Direct Link for an 09 bike.  If you get one of these software packages and want the best overall performance then you should find a Dyno tuner that can dial it in for you completely.  Then you only have to ride it and do the suggested maintenance with no warranty issues.  The replacement ECU's like TMAX will require some operator intervention and programming.  If you are not comfortable with this then I would not suggest a replacement ECU. 

[trot]

If you just want to start the bike and ride then I would suggest a tuning software program that will program the OEM Delphi computer that is on the bike.  Your choices are SEST(Harley Pro Tuner), MasterTune and Direct Link for an 09 bike.  If you get one of these software packages and want the best overall performance then you should find a Dyno tuner that can dial it in for you completely.  Then you only have to ride it and do the suggested maintenance with no warranty issues.  The replacement ECU's like TMAX will require some operator intervention and programming.  If you are not comfortable with this then I would not suggest a replacement ECU. 

Many thanks for yuor help much appreciated

[timo482]

i dont know the exact config on a hdi bike - but all the us 110's have a cat in the header pipe.

the biggest bang you get is to replace with a non cat header off of a 96" bike.

just remember - once you change from stock - whoever is doing the tuning must really know there stuff.

did your 07 run bad originally? or just after you changed the intake and exhaust?

proper tuning is MORE IMPORTANT that what parts you use. if you cant find a competent tuner you are wise to leave it stock.

to

[trot]

i dont know the exact config on a hdi bike - but all the us 110's have a cat in the header pipe.

the biggest bang you get is to replace with a non cat header off of a 96" bike.

just remember - once you change from stock - whoever is doing the tuning must really know there stuff.

did your 07 run bad originally? or just after you changed the intake and exhaust?

proper tuning is MORE IMPORTANT that what parts you use. if you cant find a competent tuner you are wise to leave it stock.

to

It was after the change that it ran badly had it back to the dealers 3 times in the end I put it back to standard. Thanks for the advise.

[DCFIREMANN]

If the mechanic you are working with can tune the Thunder Max then go with it. I have been running one since 2004 and I still love it. Some people have had problems with them but I think they got all of the kinks out of the system now. You will love it if it is setup right the first time.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[boerne free bird]

Ditto on what DC Fireman said. A competent tuner using equipmet that he is familiar witth is the way to go. I have been very please wuth mt ThuderMaxx.

[jfh]

Talking with an independant who speciallises in HD tuning (Yeti @hogfather.co.uk) he says the fuel pack is crap and the Vance and Hines are overpriced and not brilliant quality. He recommends a Thundermax ECM and either S&S Stainless Steel Ovals or Kerker Slip on Ovals plus K&N.
Dave (aka trot)

Trot,  The V&H Monster Ovals are a georgous muffler and the quality is top notch. IMHO S&S Stainless Performance Ovals don't look near as good. Not sure there is sufficient data available yet to compare performance of the two, however if slip-ons are your fancy, do not overlook the D&D 4" Boss Slip-Ons, which will perform.

I agree with your indy that the V&H Fuel Pak is crap.

Like others have already stated, go with a tuning device that is supported by your local wrench.

Cheers

[trot]

Trot,  The V&H Monster Ovals are a georgous muffler and the quality is top notch. IMHO S&S Stainless Performance Ovals don't look near as good. Not sure there is sufficient data available yet to compare performance of the two, however if slip-ons are your fancy, do not overlook the D&D 4" Boss Slip-Ons, which will perform.

I agree with your indy that the V&H Fuel Pak is crap.

Like others have already stated, go with a tuning device that is supported by your local wrench.

Cheers

Thanks for advise. I agree that the Monsters look good but they are expensive compared to some of the others. At the end of the day I want to end up with a Muffler that is not too noisy. Help
Trot

[skunk237]

I am running TMAX on 07 Ultra 103... Installed myself, downloaded maps, etc,,,, Not a big deal if you read the instructions... Read them twice....... Changing AFR settings is a snap with your laptop... Most maps will dial in by themselves... I like my TMAX...

Skunk237
07 Ultra
103 big bore
TMAX
SE 4" muff with 2"fullsac baffles
HD oil cooler
much more

[trot]

I am running TMAX on 07 Ultra 103... Installed myself, downloaded maps, etc,,,, Not a big deal if you read the instructions... Read them twice....... Changing AFR settings is a snap with your laptop... Most maps will dial in by themselves... I like my TMAX...

Skunk237
07 Ultra
103 big bore
TMAX
SE 4" muff with 2"fullsac baffles
HD oil cooler
much more

Thanks its all a bit confusing to a technical numb nuts like me some people like the TMax others  like Steve at fulsac dont like them he likes TTS. Guess its eeny meeny miny mo time.
Trot

[Eqcons]

I'm in the UK too, Trot, and I have direct experience of 3½  devices:

1) Power Commander III
Ran that on my 103" CUSE.   Fine I suspect, IF you can find a tuner who can tune them properly.  I had mine done at one of the Dynojet authorised tuners, and it was awful.  Ran worse than when I started, and it wasn't cheap.

2) Thundermax with Auto Tune
Ran that on my 110" CUSE₂. An unmitigated disaster.  Main problem is, assuming you can get a base map close enough, even though it may self adjust to seem OK locally, if you tour - and like me, I guess you go to Europe, where it can be very hot, and very high, you WILL have a problem. The TMAT does not use the ION sensor, and if very hot or high, your 110 will pink (what we in the UK call pinging, for American readers) like there's no tomorrow. Crossing the Sierra Nevada in Spain in 07 I thought there was an army of blacksmiths hitting anvils with big hammers inside my engine!  Remember, that the TMAT cannot auto-tune the timing, or make timing adjustments when it starts pinking - it does not know that the engine IS pinking, as it does not use the ION sensor!

3) SERT with (here comes the ½ device!) the addition of a Head Quarters Pro Tuner.  You still have a problem with the SERT (or in your case, it would be a SEST now) in that although the MoCo's base maps are close, it really needs a decent tuner with a Dyno to make it as good as it can be - see entry under PCIII, above - though if your configuration is close to that for the MoCo's base map, you could live without that - what I've done up till now.  Now that at that point is just a different map, loaded into the existing ECU.  What that can't do well is any great range of auto AFR adjustment, to suit differing conditions.  BUT - at least it still uses the ION sensor, so pinking is minimised.  That's where the Headquarters Pro Tuner comes in.  It's additional to the SERT, still lets the standard ECU use all of the sensors, but auto tunes the AFR to an optimimum level.  For a start that lets your motor run cooler.  I only got the HQPT close to the end of last season, so I have only 500-600 miles with it installed, and can't fully comment on how good it is, but early signs are good - for a start, the 110" runs noticeably cooler than it did with just the SERT map loaded.

Finally, the HQPT is a failsafe device; if it stops working, your ECU reverts to normal operation with the loaded map.  If the TMAT fails when you are away touring, the bike is going nowhere fast, and you can't just carry the MoCo ECU with you to swap, as you'd need the O² sensors changing too, which (at least in my case, a CUSE₂ with V&H Touring Dual headers) means removing the headers, and if one of the sensors is seized - as one of mine was - you are not in for a fun time! 

Hope that's helpful!

Jim

[Eqcons]

he says the fuel pack is crap and the Vance and Hines are overpriced and not brilliant quality. Dave (aka trot)

V&H Quality is fine except for, just like Kuryakyn, their chrome plating.  It's ridiculously thin - if you try to remove marks from it, you easily polish through it. That's one area where the MoCo at least is better.  V&H is ridiculously overpriced too. 

Another much raved about product that I've tried and dismissed as poor - Rinehart exhausts.  Way too loud, and an unattractive bark, to my ear. Had trouble with bubbling chrome on the heatshields, instructions were poor quality, and the routing of the rear header was terrible (though that's now improved.)  Best I've found - still loud, but a lovely, rounded noise, is the late lamented MoCo SE silencers.  Others hereon will have other opinions, - but that's one of the things that makes this place great! 

The FuelPak I would not personally even consider - like a few other devices, it smacks to me of "hey, other companies are making money selling this sort of thing, we should get on the bandwagon". And these type of things tend to be sold as the great panacea, so your bike is automatically tuned to perfection, and never needs to go near a dyno. Of course, that's bolleaux! 

Jim

Jim

[trot]

I'm in the UK too, Trot, and I have direct experience of 3½  devices:

1) Power Commander III
Ran that on my 103" CUSE.   Fine I suspect, IF you can find a tuner who can tune them properly.  I had mine done at one of the Dynojet authorised tuners, and it was awful.  Ran worse than when I started, and it wasn't cheap.

2) Thundermax with Auto Tune
Ran that on my 110" CUSE₂. An unmitigated disaster.  Main problem is, assuming you can get a base map close enough, even though it may self adjust to seem OK locally, if you tour - and like me, I guess you go to Europe, where it can be very hot, and very high, you WILL have a problem. The TMAT does not use the ION sensor, and if very hot or high, your 110 will pink (what we in the UK call pinging, for American readers) like there's no tomorrow. Crossing the Sierra Nevada in Spain in 07 I thought there was an army of blacksmiths hitting anvils with big hammers inside my engine!  Remember, that the TMAT cannot auto-tune the timing, or make timing adjustments when it starts pinking - it does not know that the engine IS pinking, as it does not use the ION sensor!

3) SERT with (here comes the ½ device!) the addition of a Head Quarters Pro Tuner.  You still have a problem with the SERT (or in your case, it would be a SEST now) in that although the MoCo's base maps are close, it really needs a decent tuner with a Dyno to make it as good as it can be - see entry under PCIII, above - though if your configuration is close to that for the MoCo's base map, you could live without that - what I've done up till now.  Now that at that point is just a different map, loaded into the existing ECU.  What that can't do well is any great range of auto AFR adjustment, to suit differing conditions.  BUT - at least it still uses the ION sensor, so pinking is minimised.  That's where the Headquarters Pro Tuner comes in.  It's additional to the SERT, still lets the standard ECU use all of the sensors, but auto tunes the AFR to an optimimum level.  For a start that lets your motor run cooler.  I only got the HQPT close to the end of last season, so I have only 500-600 miles with it installed, and can't fully comment on how good it is, but early signs are good - for a start, the 110" runs noticeably cooler than it did with just the SERT map loaded.

Finally, the HQPT is a failsafe device; if it stops working, your ECU reverts to normal operation with the loaded map.  If the TMAT fails when you are away touring, the bike is going nowhere fast, and you can't just carry the MoCo ECU with you to swap, as you'd need the O² sensors changing too, which (at least in my case, a CUSE₂ with V&H Touring Dual headers) means removing the headers, and if one of the sensors is seized - as one of mine was - you are not in for a fun time! 

Hope that's helpful!

Jim

That was very helpful Jim it narrows it down for me to a choice of 2 either the Pro tuner or the TTS.Did you have it dynod with the pro tuner or did you set it up yourself?
Trot

[Eqcons]

That was very helpful Jim it narrows it down for me to a choice of 2 either the Pro tuner or the TTS.Did you have it dynod with the pro tuner or did you set it up yourself?
Trot

Lack of anywhere that you can get a reliable dyno tune means no Dyno, Dave.  But there's no adjustment required (or possible) with the Pro Tuner.  That's a function of the SERT map - the HQPT is added on top of that just to manage the AFR.

Jim