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[1abastarsmda]

Is there any performance difference between:-

Modifying the stock headers / Using Non-CVO Headers and installing Vance & Hines Power Duals, if not then the cost saving looks very beneficial.

Regards
Carl
'09 SERG

So far, there's only one person on here that I know of that has the Power Duals mounted...just a few days ago, and he also changed his cam in the process, so I don't think at this point we have any comparisons to go on.  It sure doesn't look like there could be much of a difference between the unrestricted stock system and the Power Duals.  I think someone at V&H got a little artsy and said, "Hey, we can make a fancy looking X with a heatshield since we're routing the pipes like Harley's stock system and we can call it a power chamber".  But, yes, it would be nice to find out when someone gets a set mounted with everything else stock and the same set of mufflers and intake, and see where the numbers fall.

[RickC]

So far, there's only one person on here that I know of that has the Power Duals mounted...just a few days ago, and he also changed his cam in the process, so I don't think at this point we have any comparisons to go on.  It sure doesn't look like there could be much of a difference between the unrestricted stock system and the Power Duals.  I think someone at V&H got a little artsy and said, "Hey, we can make a fancy looking X with a heatshield since we're routing the pipes like Harley's stock system and we can call it a power chamber".  But, yes, it would be nice to find out when someone gets a set mounted with everything else stock and the same set of mufflers and intake, and see where the numbers fall.

Honestly, I'm gonna be surprised if there is enough difference to justify the $500 price tag on performance alone. Especially when a patient person can find a stock, non-CVO header for half that price (or maybe less... much less... ) or the more industrious can just cut out the cat.

Now, I have to admit that I do like the way the Power Duals look. Big, fat honking headpipes (or heat shields, as the case may be); that big bold "X" (turn that sideways) on the right side of the bike; those are some sweet aesthetics!

So, maybe one can justify the price on a combination of performance and appearance...

[1abastarsmda]

Honestly, I'm gonna be surprised if there is enough difference to justify the $500 price tag on performance alone. Especially when a patient person can find a stock, non-CVO header for half that price (or maybe less... much less... ) or the more industrious can just cut out the cat.

Now, I have to admit that I do like the way the Power Duals look. Big, fat honking headpipes (or heat shields, as the case may be); that big bold "X" (turn that sideways) on the right side of the bike; those are some sweet aesthetics!

So, maybe one can justify the price on a combination of performance and appearance...

Hey congrats on the new bike...I think I saw somewhere that you just picked up a new one a few weeks ago.

As far as the pipes go...a patient person can find a stock, non-CVO header...guess I'm not patient.  Actually, this entire pipe experience has beat me up.  I changed to the Fullsac's and drilled the converter, only to find there was more converter in there, then I ordered Power Duals which kept being backordered further and further, and then ordered the D&D Fat Cat and now I have found out that those are on backorder also.  If I weren't so impatient, I may have been able to come up with a set of non-CVO pipes, but sending my pipes off to have them gutted was out of the question.  It seemed worse to me to have the bike sitting there with no exhaust at all for any period of time. The lessons we learn or in my case, the lessons that I don't learn anything from.  Why do I have a bad feeling that I'm not going to like all the racket from my D&D's and end up back to square one with the Fullsac's and either the Power Duals or gutted head pipes?

[RickC]

Hey congrats on the new bike...I think I saw somewhere that you just picked up a new one a few weeks ago.

Thanks, man! I picked her up about 2-1/2 weeks ago, then weather and a bad back have kept me to about 350 miles so far and no time to install the boxes of parts in my garage. I'll get there, though. Definitely...

As far as the pipes go...a patient person can find a stock, non-CVO header...guess I'm not patient.  Actually, this entire pipe experience has beat me up.  I changed to the Fullsac's and drilled the converter, only to find there was more converter in there, then I ordered Power Duals which kept being backordered further and further, and then ordered the D&D Fat Cat and now I have found out that those are on backorder also.  If I weren't so impatient, I may have been able to come up with a set of non-CVO pipes, but sending my pipes off to have them gutted was out of the question.  It seemed worse to me to have the bike sitting there with no exhaust at all for any period of time. The lessons we learn or in my case, the lessons that I don't learn anything from.  Why do I have a bad feeling that I'm not going to like all the racket from my D&D's and end up back to square one with the Fullsac's and either the Power Duals or gutted head pipes?

So...

1. Cancel the D&D Order

2. Either,

    a. Contact every dealership in your area and ask them if they can lay hands on a non-CVO stock headpipe for you. Beg them. Tell them you'll be willing to pay $xxx.xx for it ($50? $100? $200? That's up to you); or

    b. Park you bike *NOW*, pull the head pipes and send 'em to Steve at Fullsac. People are reporting pretty quick turn around...

3. Keep your FullSacs..

4. Ride the H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS outta your bike.

5. Enjoy!

You'll be a few hundred dollars to the good... and... you might be done sooner...

Just my $0.02 worth...

P.S. BTW, I'm impatient, too. Usually I end up buying two or three or four different kinds of something for the bike before I decide what I really want to do. That gets expensive. I did that with my last two bikes. The only good news, is that I've got a chitload of parts in the garage to Ebay and help defray the cost of my CVO OCD (M-O-U-S-E!!!)... So, what I'm saying here, is that I know exactly how ya feel... now... and how you're likely to feel when you've got too much money invested in options that you aren't happy with and have to spend more money (or time or both) to get back to where you should have gone to begin with...

Hang in there!

[1abastarsmda]

Thanks, man! I picked her up about 2-1/2 weeks ago, then weather and a bad back have kept me to about 350 miles so far and no time to install the boxes of parts in my garage. I'll get there, though. Definitely...

So...

1. Cancel the D&D Order

2. Either,

    a. Contact every dealership in your area and ask them if they can lay hands on a non-CVO stock headpipe for you. Beg them. Tell them you'll be willing to pay $xxx.xx for it ($50? $100? $200? That's up to you); or

    b. Park you bike *NOW*, pull the head pipes and send 'em to Steve at Fullsac. People are reporting pretty quick turn around...

3. Keep your FullSacs..

4. Ride the H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS outta your bike.

5. Enjoy!

You'll be a few hundred dollars to the good... and... you might be done sooner...

Just my $0.02 worth...

P.S. BTW, I'm impatient, too. Usually I end up buying two or three or four different kinds of something for the bike before I decide what I really want to do. That gets expensive. I did that with my last two bikes. The only good news, is that I've got a chitload of parts in the garage to Ebay and help defray the cost of my CVO OCD (M-O-U-S-E!!!)... So, what I'm saying here, is that I know exactly how ya feel... now... and how you're likely to feel when you've got too much money invested in options that you aren't happy with and have to spend more money (or time or both) to get back to where you should have gone to begin with...

Hang in there!

I already went through the dealership thing and only came up with one set of pipes and the guy wanted $350 for stock pipes.  He did call me back and still wanted $200+ and I told him they can rot in the corner of his garage.  I tried catching the dealers off guard by just asking first if they've been able to get pipes in and installed any on the 09's.  Quick answer was always, "yeah, we've done lots of them".  Then I hit them with the follow up question, and suddenly it was "well, let's see, I guess most of those I was thinking about were 08's and the only 09's we did just had slips ons installed".  I got very little cooperation, other than my own dealer, who found me someone the same day, but I've already told you the outcome of that.

I really like the look of the D&D and I'm hoping that I can deal with the sound.  My last bike had V&H Long Shot True Duals, and my friend had the D&D's on his SERK, and I thought my pipes were louder than his.  I had no problem with the sound on the ones I had, but I think I was just getting used to the lower volume with the Fullsacs.  I'll probably be happy with them...but if not, I'm sure I can find a buyer on here.  Likewise, if I'm happy with the D&D, I'll probably be ready to sell the Fullsacs very soon.

So far, I've done pretty well with this bike.  I've only put one part on that I took back off and bought something else.  My friend offered to pay me full retail for the part less 20% that he figured he could get during a sale at a dealer.  SOLD without hesitation there...I got 20% off when I bought it.  My bike is at the dealer right now and it sure would be convenient if the pipes would arrive this week, but I haven't been able to get in touch with Eric at hdpipes.com to find out when they are shipping.  I forgot to try him again today, but will tomorrow.  I'll get this thing worked out one way or the other and then it may be time to pack my bags and head for TN.  I think it's about time I get you and Larry to pull those bikes out of the garage and do some riding.  Good weather is just around the corner.

[mtbronco]

I guess I have one question for the whole group here going with FullSacs, what performance numbers are you seeing.  A local guy here did all the same as you all seem to be doing and it was disappointing to what gains it made.  Did the cut and gut of the "material," welded back together and did FullSacs 2.25 and it only pulled 104 torque.  That was after multiple dyno runs by a 10 yr vet on the dyno and done on different days, different times of day, etc.  Not that that is disappointing but my 06 RG with 95 / heads / cams / etc pulled 99 torque.  They then just threw on a set Kerker / PAT mufflers and baffles and it was pulling between 107 and 109 torque.  Definately a difference.   

[1abastarsmda]

Thanks, man! I picked her up about 2-1/2 weeks ago, then weather and a bad back have kept me to about 350 miles so far and no time to install the boxes of parts in my garage. I'll get there, though. Definitely...

So...

1. Cancel the D&D Order

2. Either,

    a. Contact every dealership in your area and ask them if they can lay hands on a non-CVO stock headpipe for you. Beg them. Tell them you'll be willing to pay $xxx.xx for it ($50? $100? $200? That's up to you); or

    b. Park you bike *NOW*, pull the head pipes and send 'em to Steve at Fullsac. People are reporting pretty quick turn around...

3. Keep your FullSacs..

4. Ride the H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS outta your bike.

5. Enjoy!

You'll be a few hundred dollars to the good... and... you might be done sooner...

Just my $0.02 worth...

P.S. BTW, I'm impatient, too. Usually I end up buying two or three or four different kinds of something for the bike before I decide what I really want to do. That gets expensive. I did that with my last two bikes. The only good news, is that I've got a chitload of parts in the garage to Ebay and help defray the cost of my CVO OCD (M-O-U-S-E!!!)... So, what I'm saying here, is that I know exactly how ya feel... now... and how you're likely to feel when you've got too much money invested in options that you aren't happy with and have to spend more money (or time or both) to get back to where you should have gone to begin with...

Hang in there!

Too late now.  My D&D Fat Cat showed up here around 3:15pm.  I took them out to the dealer and they took my old pipes off, packaged them up for me in the D&D box, and sent them home with me already.  On the way home, they called to let me know the pipes were on and look great.  I've got to leave it there until we get a little bit warmer day so they can dyno it now.  New LED tour pack lamps/turm signals look great.  NAV system needs a module, which is on backorder.  Heated seat has a problem within the seat and it's on backorder also.  So at least the few items I still need done will be a real quick fix when they are received and I should have my bike back the first nice day we get here.

[guppytrash]

I guess I have one question for the whole group here going with FullSacs, what performance numbers are you seeing.  A local guy here did all the same as you all seem to be doing and it was disappointing to what gains it made.  Did the cut and gut of the "material," welded back together and did FullSacs 2.25 and it only pulled 104 torque.  That was after multiple dyno runs by a 10 yr vet on the dyno and done on different days, different times of day, etc.  Not that that is disappointing but my 06 RG with 95 / heads / cams / etc pulled 99 torque.  They then just threw on a set Kerker / PAT mufflers and baffles and it was pulling between 107 and 109 torque.  Definately a difference.   

Dyno numbers vary one dyno to the next, lots of tricks to make bigger numbers if that is going to satisfy the customer .  
The numbers that got me....
Fullsacs less than $110, gut the cat $0 to $50...you can't beat those numbers with any aftermarket exhaust system.  
That's why I did it, is it the absolute best?  For me at about $150 total you betcha!!!

 

  

[guppytrash]

1abastarmda

Let me know what they find out about your NAV.  Did your nav ever work? 

THX
guppytrash

[1abastarsmda]

1abastarmda

Let me know what they find out about your NAV.  Did your nav ever work? 

THX
guppytrash

See 2 posts above yours.  I didn't work.  The tech showed me real quick how someone can tell if they have a bad module.  If you take your outer fairing off, when you are facing the exposed back side of the stereo unit, look at the bottom left corner.  There is a small (about the size of a pencil eraser head) colored sticker.  Green sticker needs replaced.  Purple sticker you are okay.  They ordered me a new module and it's on backorder.  They told me that the manufacturer is still working on making the module that actually works, which makes me wonder what the ones with the purple sticker are.  If those work, why not put one of them in there?

[LETS_ROLL]

The hell with trying to buy a stock 96" header pipe.  People are not changing them and when they do they want mucho dinero.  Took it off cut it in half and getting it welded tomorrow.  The cat was very easy to remove.  It was easier than drilling it out with the core bit.  Hello free flow pipes!  Let's Roll

If you're considering it, go for it.

[Texas 103]

The hell with trying to buy a stock 96" header pipe.  People are not changing them and when they do they want mucho dinero.  Took it off cut it in half and getting it welded tomorrow.  The cat was very easy to remove.  It was easier than drilling it out with the core bit.  Hello free flow pipes!  Let's Roll

If you're considering it, go for it.

Like I said before, Band Saw, Welder,Zip Gun, $20.00, cold case of Bud...Problem solved...

[jamesrgarner]

I got a set of headers off a guy for free who put true duals on his UC.  I installed them yesterday but didn't have time to change out the baffles, I have a set of fullsacs still in the box waiting for me.  I was going to tackle the baffles today but it was so pretty out I had to ride.  Maybe it's just wishful thinking, maybe it's real, one thing is for sure, I noticed a difference today especially with low speed throttle response.  After about 50 miles or so I began to notice a throatier sound, even more noticable at end of ride , 225 miles.  I'm not sure if I'm doing any damage running it without tuning it, I've read that it is set to run very lean.  My plan is to install the baffles then take it to a nearby dealer for a SSERT and a dyno tune.

I've had my bike since 02/28 and hit 2,500 miles today - I've got to tell you, it's an incredible machine. 

[bigmegina]

has anyone used samsons true duals headpipes?i am thinking about these.will this cure the cat problem?i already have rinehart slipons.i have a 09 SERG.

[LarryB]

do they make them specifically for the SERG3