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[1abastarsmda]

I rode it home and it sure sounds nice with the D&D.  I can still hear the stereo, but I have to crank it.  I hate the look without the left muffler and I'm going to order the ghost pipe tomorrow.  It looks naked like that, but not the kind of naked that turns me on.  It might look better there if I had the chrome belt guard cover, but I think I would still want the muffler there.

Problems:  There is now a slight hesitation at the beginning of the twist of the throttle.  It's like there's a dead spot at the initial twist where it almost sounds like the engine could cut out, and then as I continue twisting...Vroooom.  I didn't feel like it was as fast as when I sent the bike to the shop.  Prior, I was surprised at how quickly and easily this bike went from 0 to 60 or 70 so effortlessly, and now it seems that I have to really get on it, and when I look down, I've hit 60, when that type of manuever I was previously passing 70 and climbing.  The other thing I noticed is that when I let off the throttle, instead of it feeling like it will continue to glide down the road at whatever speed, it seems that now the engine is holding it back and slowing it, like what happens when you downshift.  The overall feeling is like the bike is geared lower now.  Maybe that's what these pipes do.  I'm going to have to take it for a ride again tomorrow and give it another chance.  Maybe it was psychological when I was disappointed in the numbers.  I wasn't expecting it to be in the 100's or anything, but I did expect to see something more in the 93 to 95 hp range at least.

One other thing:  they told me that they couldn't find where the problem with my heated seat was.  They said that it was getting power and it must be something inside the seat itself and that they ordered me a seat which is on backorder.  On the way home, my butt starting getting very warm.  Now my seat works and they don't even know that they fixed it.  What's wrong with that scenario?  There must be a short somewhere if it's working now and they didn't do anything to fix it.  I assume it will quit on me again.

[1abastarsmda]

Dave


Wow, That is so much easier!

IMHO your numbers are fine.

I have seen many numbers from 110's inflated to satisfy owners.

With S/E breather, 2 into 1 D&D and SSERT my numbers were 96 h/p and 108 T.

I think your next step is to ride that puppy and see how it feels.

But (because we are on first name basis now) I must go ahead and tell you up front, it use to be that the red ones were faster,,,,,,,,,that has all changed with the 09 SEUC.

The silver 09 SEUC for some reason out of the crate is faster and respond better to quality tuning than the other colors.

So ultimately if your looking for higher numbers you have three options,

1) Take it to a tuner that will look you in the eye and say "Yep, I tune those things all the time, I usually get 118/120. or

2) Do some motorwork, cam, headwork, intake and retune. or

3) Trade that red one in for a silver one and be happy having the fastest color of the 09 SEUC's.

But probably the best thing you can do is ride the bike, have fun and not worry about it.

SBB



And note, After reading your post a few times I have to wonder about,

Either that is true or B/S.
Follow up with Jim's question and he can call B/S on B/S or tell you they do have good equipment.

 

Just when I thought you were a reliable source of information, you go and blow your integrity with that comment about silver being faster.  They're laughing at you, not with you.

[RickC]

*snip*

Problems:  There is now a slight hesitation at the beginning of the twist of the throttle.  It's like there's a dead spot at the initial twist where it almost sounds like the engine could cut out, and then as I continue twisting...Vroooom. 

I had a similar problem after building the engine on my '05 FLTR a couple of years ago. When we got it on the dyno, it was way lean from 2000-2500 rpm -- something like 18:1 AFR. A quick tune took care of that. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the bike runs that way after dyno tuning. That's exactly the kind of thing they should be fixing.

I didn't feel like it was as fast as when I sent the bike to the shop.  Prior, I was surprised at how quickly and easily this bike went from 0 to 60 or 70 so effortlessly, and now it seems that I have to really get on it, and when I look down, I've hit 60, when that type of manuever I was previously passing 70 and climbing.  The other thing I noticed is that when I let off the throttle, instead of it feeling like it will continue to glide down the road at whatever speed, it seems that now the engine is holding it back and slowing it, like what happens when you downshift.... Maybe that's what these pipes do.

I put a D&D Fatcat on my '05 FLTR when I did a bunch of work on the motor. I took the stock TC88 to 96" with aftermarket cylinders and put in CP high-compression pistons (10.5:1). I had the heads worked over with new valves and springs and put in a high-lift, gear-drive cam. Oh, I also swapped the throttle body for a larger bore HP, Inc. unit. I don't remember the exact bore, but it was about 4-6mm over stock.

The FatCats were recommended by the builder who put the kit together for me. He made a very clear point to me that the FatCats were the best performance pipe on the market for a high-compression V-Twin build.

The CVO 110 is not high-compression. Maybe the FatCat is flowing to freely (not enough back-pressure) and causing a lean condition with the lower compression. I'm just guessing here based on my past experience.

That's my $0.02 worth. That and $3.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks...

YMMV...

[Fired00d]

.....

Problems:  There is now a slight hesitation at the beginning of the twist of the throttle.  It's like there's a dead spot at the initial twist where it almost sounds like the engine could cut out, and then as I continue twisting...Vroooom.  ......

I've heard of this before w/TBW bikes. Found this thread - I have a question. discussing it. Not sure if this is your problem, but what you are describing has been noticed before.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[sadunbar]

I had a similar problem after building the engine on my '05 FLTR a couple of years ago. When we got it on the dyno, it was way lean from 2000-2500 rpm -- something like 18:1 AFR. A quick tune took care of that. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the bike runs that way after dyno tuning. That's exactly the kind of thing they should be fixing.

I put a D&D Fatcat on my '05 FLTR when I did a bunch of work on the motor. I took the stock TC88 to 96" with aftermarket cylinders and put in CP high-compression pistons (10.5:1). I had the heads worked over with new valves and springs and put in a high-lift, gear-drive cam. Oh, I also swapped the throttle body for a larger bore HP, Inc. unit. I don't remember the exact bore, but it was about 4-6mm over stock.

The FatCats were recommended by the builder who put the kit together for me. He made a very clear point to me that the FatCats were the best performance pipe on the market for a high-compression V-Twin build.
The CVO 110 is not high-compression. Maybe the FatCat is flowing to freely (not enough back-pressure) and causing a lean condition with the lower compression. I'm just guessing here based on my past experience.

That's my $0.02 worth. That and $3.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks...

YMMV...

I think most builders would disagree completely with that statement... 

[grc]

...........................................
Problems:  There is now a slight hesitation at the beginning of the twist of the throttle.  It's like there's a dead spot at the initial twist where it almost sounds like the engine could cut out, and then as I continue twisting...Vroooom.  I didn't feel like it was as fast as when I sent the bike to the shop. ......................................................

The other thing I noticed is that when I let off the throttle, instead of it feeling like it will continue to glide down the road at whatever speed, it seems that now the engine is holding it back and slowing it, like what happens when you downshift. 

The overall feeling is like the bike is geared lower now.[/color]  Maybe that's what these pipes do.  I'm going to have to take it for a ride again tomorrow and give it another chance.  Maybe it was psychological when I was disappointed in the numbers.  I wasn't expecting it to be in the 100's or anything, but I did expect to see something more in the 93 to 95 hp range at least.

One other thing:  they told me that they couldn't find where the problem with my heated seat was.  They said that it was getting power and it must be something inside the seat itself and that they ordered me a seat which is on backorder.  On the way home, my butt starting getting very warm.  Now my seat works and they don't even know that they fixed it.  What's wrong with that scenario?  There must be a short somewhere if it's working now and they didn't do anything to fix it.  I assume it will quit on me again.

I'm no tuning expert, but it sounds to me like they used a base map for your tune that has the screwed up ETC programming that Harley came out with some time back.  There are threads here that discuss this issue, as in updated calibrations from H-D that created a dead spot off idle with the electronic throttle control.  It can be tuned out with the SSERT if your tuner is half as good as he told you he was, and assuming he has the latest software loaded.

The first thing that pops into my mind about the second issue is that they used decel enleanment to eliminate exhaust popping.  That is a strategy that reduces fuel under closed throttle, high speed and high vacuum conditions.  It is part of the stock calibrations to help reduce emissions on decel, and most tuners reduce that effect to reduce popping since they don't care about emissions.  You should have noticed some of the same effect when stock if you ran the bike up over 3000 rpm and then chopped the throttle, especially in the lower gears.  It sounds like the engine stops firing until rpm's drop below 2000.  Your tuner may have increased the enleanment to reduce popping, which is a legitimate method as well, but it will result in a more pronounced feeling of compression braking.

Before you pass judgement on the HP and Torque numbers, you need to see the actual plot (graph).  As I and many others have stated many times, peak numbers don't mean squat except in dyno shootouts.  The area under the curves, the smoothness of the curves, and the rpm where the peaks occur are much more important than peak numbers.  When you're dealing with a chassis inertia dyno in a facility that is not environmentally controlled, you will get all kinds of variations from day to day, from run to run, from operator to operator, etc.   Have them print out your before and after runs (make sure they include the AFR plots), and then post them here on the site.  Some of the experts here can help you interpret them if needed.

Jerry

[1abastarsmda]

Before anyone catches me and says:   

[1abastarsmda]

the naked side of the bike

[Fired00d]

the naked side of the bike

I know it's looking a little bare now, but if you were able to dress that side up w/some chrome wouldn't it be better then having a nonfunctional piece of chrome (ghost pipe) there??

I know presently there isn't nothing offered to change your sprocket out, but a little creative ingenuity (oh and a few $$$) anything is possible. You can at least get the lower belt cover in chrome until you decide what can be done w/the sprocket.

It also took me some time to get used to only one pipe coming out of a bagger, but the more I see the Fat Cat the more I like them. You can see in my picture how much chrome can be hidden on the left.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[1abastarsmda]

I know it's looking a little bare now, but if you were able to dress that side up w/some chrome wouldn't it be better then having a nonfunctional piece of chrome (ghost pipe) there??

I know presently there isn't nothing offered to change your sprocket out, but a little creative ingenuity (oh and a few $$$) anything is possible. You can at least get the lower belt cover in chrome until you decide what can be done w/the sprocket.

It also took me some time to get used to only one pipe coming out of a bagger, but the more I see the Fat Cat the more I like them. You can see in my picture how much chrome can be hidden on the left.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

The way I figure it, any chrome that I add is going to be non-functional, and the ghost pipe will come close to hiding it all.  I may or may not wait to order the ghost pipe.  I don't know yet.  I just want to ride again tomorrow and if I still don't like what I'm feeling, I guess I'll be riding to the dealer to see about getting this tuned properly.  I'm not as concerned about the pipe or belt guard as I am about having it run correctly.  Those other items I can put on myself and I don't have to go to the aggravation of dealing with the shop.

[Talon]

Do you have your printout of the dyno run you can post?

[miker]

Dave, what numbers did you think you were gonna get?

[miker]

Put a copy of the map in the maps section so we can see what they did or did not do...

[MUFFMAN]

Dave


Wow, That is so much easier!

IMHO your numbers are fine.

I have seen many numbers from 110's inflated to satisfy owners.

With S/E breather, 2 into 1 D&D and SSERT my numbers were 96 h/p and 108 T.

I think your next step is to ride that puppy and see how it feels.

But (because we are on first name basis now) I must go ahead and tell you up front, it use to be that the red ones were faster,,,,,,,,,that has all changed with the 09 SEUC.

The silver 09 SEUC for some reason out of the crate is faster and respond better to quality tuning than the other colors.

So ultimately if your looking for higher numbers you have three options,

1) Take it to a tuner that will look you in the eye and say "Yep, I tune those things all the time, I usually get 118/120. or

2) Do some motorwork, cam, headwork, intake and retune. or

3) Trade that red one in for a silver one and be happy having the fastest color of the 09 SEUC's.

But probably the best thing you can do is ride the bike, have fun and not worry about it.

SBB



And note, After reading your post a few times I have to wonder about,

Either that is true or B/S.
Follow up with Jim's question and he can call B/S on B/S or tell you they do have good equipment.

 

RED IS STILL FASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MUFFMAN]

In regards to your HP & torque #s pretty well bang on. I had head work done, running 575 HQ cams/ with D&D fatcats and the initial Dyno was only 103Hp & 112 Tq. When I talked to Hq's they said the new Dyno''s usually show about 10% lower numbers. Didn't believe him. Went to different tester and my numbers were 111 Hp & 122tq. Again, it is just a number and usually just for bragging rights. It's all how it feels to you.