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[HD Street Performance]

The poster in #27 had issues with Bob at RC Cycles, no need to beat that horse, and it has been all over the net on other forums. Many happy customers and an honest dyno.

[PR3VS56]

The poster in #27 had issues with Bob at RC Cycles, no need to beat that horse, and it has been all over the net on other forums. Many happy customers and an honest dyno.

I had several issues there, which have all been resolved -- and I harbor no malice against Bob or RC Cycles.

That said, before any issues arose Bob did a great job tuning my bike.  But, he was done & pulling off wires when I asked if he was going to adjust timing.  He said no, the bike runs fine & he would only adjust timing if there was a problem.  I asked about adjusting timing to squeeze out a little more power -- he said OK, put the wires back on, and did 2 more runs with adjusted timing (increased power was the result - I think 1 ft lb tq, which he said I wouldn't feel and maybe that's true).  Had I not asked, timing wouldn't have been touched.

I know and agree that Bob is a talented tuner.  My experience with tuners has been that they look for straight line AFR.

Back in the day we would work timing and fuel on the dyno with 1 goal in mind -- max power/tq.  It seems like that's not really done today.  Straight line AFR is the goal with the exception of adjustments made with AFR to take away torque dip.  My experience anyway.  Not wanting to open up a can of worms, just posting my experience.

[HD Street Performance]

A thread drift
The original poster needs a good tune, no doubt because the Race Kit pipe was not used.
A good tune includes individual cylinder mapping, timing checked for ion sensing activity and corrections made and timing for WOT power without ping activity verified, and all part throttle and loads sampled and VEs corrected. Once the VEs are corrected if closed loop the AFR is proper and WOT / high load situations are covered as well.
In my case here in Tacoma, WA area that means a trip to Canada, BC! So not any easy task for sure. For others another solution is TTS for closed loop bikes and TMax. This enables an end user to tune themselves and the TTS can do Data runs to verify acceleration and ping activity (a little time consuming and techy for some).

[geezerglide]

A thread drift
The original poster needs a good tune, no doubt because the Race Kit pipe was not used.
A good tune includes individual cylinder mapping, timing checked for ion sensing activity and corrections made and timing for WOT power without ping activity verified, and all part throttle and loads sampled and VEs corrected. Once the VEs are corrected if closed loop the AFR is proper and WOT / high load situations are covered as well.
In my case here in Tacoma, WA area that means a trip to Canada, BC! So not any easy task for sure. For others another solution is TTS for closed loop bikes and TMax. This enables an end user to tune themselves and the TTS can do Data runs to verify acceleration and ping activity (a little time consuming and techy for some).

Dewey,

You mention in your post for a proper tune you go to Canada, BC. If I were to guess would that be to Lee Uhrich's Shop JARZ Performance in Abbotsford, BC? If not who>

geezerglide

[HD Street Performance]

Yep, that's right. I have watched and participated in a tune there and was very impressed. They also broke the bike in on the dyno very sensibly IMO

[jfh]

I did not have a base line to compare on my 110" 08 RK; Mods as follows: Reinhart true duals, Hi flow air cleaner, Slight porting, shaved the heads and Woods 590 Knight Prowler cams. 110 HP and 115 Trq. I'm happy with the performance.

Wood 590 Knight Prowler cam?  Nothing on their website about that particular cam. Can you provide details?

[geezerglide]

Yep, that's right. I have watched and participated in a tune there and was very impressed. They also broke the bike in on the dyno very sensibly IMO

I have been going to Lee for tuning for the past five years, he had done my 95" build, my Jims 120 build got me 131hp and 134tq with proper tuning and just last July he got me 103.6hp and 116.7tq out of my SE103, with dave Mackie, 598 cams, head work by Charlie (SBC), Supertrapp SuperMeg 2:1 rest engine stock, Baker DD6 trans.

I have a run trip of approx. 1,300 miles both ways (Calgary to Abbotsford, BC and back) for him to work on my bike, so far the best I have found in western Canada. when he tuned the Jims 120, Roger came up from Bellingham to watch Lee the tune and dyno. Another thing about Lee he will let you watch and participate, where other tuners will not let you in the Dyno Room.

geezerglide

[HD Street Performance]

I was very skeptical!
Funny thing is after about an hour I backed off watching. I knew they were well versed and the bike was going to be well tuned just by watching their technique. They gave me all the software too the Winpep run files and the tune map.

[anglia48]

hdfr 120; I believe the cam numbers were Woods TW-8-6. Around 240 duration and 590 lift. Not sure on the other specs. But so far the motor runs cooler by about 20-30 degrees. Of course up here in Canada it is still fairly cool outside too.  But on a recent trip 1000 miles from Calgary to Great Falls Montana the bike only hot 210 degrees in 75-80 degree temps in Montana.
Steve

[JeffsHogPen]

This has been a very good thread. I think that I have learned a lot. To Unbalanced....was your bike running the stock 9:3.1  compression pistons ? Or was it with 10:1 compression Pistons that you got the 110 hp. ? Also what does the SE 251 that helps with the hp and torque that the 255 does not ? I would like to leave the 9:3.1 compression if I can. Changing cams, heads ported and polished and throttle body is no problem. Any other ideas. In December when I had the Vance and Hines 2 into 2, big breather, and SE Race Tuner installed it has 96.8 hp with 122.7 tq. I would like to keep the torque and get more hp.

[Unbalanced]

This has been a very good thread. I think that I have learned a lot. To Unbalanced....was your bike running the stock 9:3.1  compression pistons ? Or was it with 10:1 compression Pistons that you got the 110 hp. ? Also what does the SE 251 that helps with the hp and torque that the 255 does not ? I would like to leave the 9:3.1 compression if I can. Changing cams, heads ported and polished and throttle body is no problem. Any other ideas. In December when I had the Vance and Hines 2 into 2, big breather, and SE Race Tuner installed it has 96.8 hp with 122.7 tq. I would like to keep the torque and get more hp.

Stock Pistons, Rinehart Exhaust and Harley Stage 1 roll your own with a K&N air filter  was 116/104 using the bolt in cam from Yuill Brothers.

When I got the 127/122 it was with Cycle Rama build

10.5 to 1 Mahle Pistons (HD)
58mm HPI Throttle body with 4.89 injectors
SERT
Cycle Rama 595 Cam
Cycle Rama Headwork
Cycle Rama Build and Tune
Cometic .030 headgaskets
New Stock Lifters
S&S pushrods
Rinehart True Duals with 2 1/4 baffles

Combined both dyno sheets for you Jeffshogpen

[JeffsHogPen]

Thanks for your input and giving me the complete specs.  to work with.... now I know what it will take to achieve these kinds of numbers.  I appreciate it....Jeff

[moscooter]

 
"So if I read that correctly, they (the dealer) are warranting the engine, not H-D.  If they told you otherwise, it's BS.  H-D will not knowingly get involved with modifications that are not 100% street legal and EPA certified, and paying warranty claims on race kits installed on a street ridden bike makes them complicit and possibly subject to a huge tampering fine.  The only way I know of for the dealer to get H-D to pay is to file a false and fraudulent claim (and hope H-D doesn't catch them).

Since your dealership is in fact the warrantor in this case, I can't see any reason why installing an Andrews or other cam should be a big issue.  It's not like they have to get permission from H-D, since it's not H-D's call.  However, if they insist on sticking with H-D parts you could look at the SE251 which would be better than what you have now. 

Jerry"

 
Jerry........Your conclusion above is (incorrect).  I questioned my service mgr about this and was advised that he has had HD warranty cover race tuners and other non (street legal) items and has a 99% warranty rating.  Maybe that has been your experience, but not here.

Now, with that said.....we're yet to conclude how we address warranty if we plug in a non-HD set of cams to get the results I'm after.  I'll relate that when I find out.

[grc]

Jerry........Your conclusion above is (incorrect).  I questioned my service mgr about this and was advised that he has had HD warranty cover race tuners and other non (street legal) items and has a 99% warranty rating.   Maybe that has been your experience, but not here.

Now, with that said.....we're yet to conclude how we address warranty if we plug in a non-HD set of cams to get the results I'm after.  I'll relate that when I find out.

I stand firmly by my statement.  As a one-time automotive service rep, I'm totally familiar with how manufacturer's deal with warranty and with emission tampering.  I strongly suggest you get your information directly from the MoCo, not from some dealership service manager who has an incentive to tell you what you want to hear.

No skin off my nose one way or the other, but I do like to try to help steer folks in the right direction when I can.

Jerry

[moscooter]

 

"No skin off my nose one way or the other, but I do like to try to help steer folks in the right direction when I can.

Jerry"

   Jerry,  You're right,  no skin off your nose.....(understand,  no skin off of mine either).   I also.......many years ago,  was employed in a dealership.  In fact,  one of our mechanics was also the "key" holder to the local drag strip in our area.

Many of us used to go up there right after work and unlock the gates and put on slicks and/or uncap header pipes and race for an hour or two.  Upon occassion,  something........like a transmission or rearend would break.   No problem,  the next day or so at work,  that item would get "WARRANTEED" in some customers car!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Now,  I'm not saying that's proper or suggesting that is what happens frequently........but based upon NOT only my service mgrs input,  but from other dealerships...(HD),  I'd have to tell ya......Harley race parts DO get covered by warranty (NOT THE DEALER) and upon occassion,  I believe a bike with one or more (non-HD parts) will have a problem.....and HD will end up covering the repairs.

Deal with the reality of that.