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[chanman]

I have seen several posts on this subject. Is the tire manufacturer standing behind the tire and Harley covering it under warranty or are we on the hook ourself?

[cvosjoe]

The front tire is cupped on my 09 SERG. The dealer is replacing the tire and the wheel under warranty.

[ragrep]

CVSJoe- at how many miles did you notice the cupping, and from that point, how long before they agreed to replace? Also wondering why they agreed to replace the wheel? 

What tire pressure are you running- HD spec: 36psi front/40 Rear or Dunlops max cold pressure stamped on the tire 41 front/42 Rear? How often do you normally check the pressure?

[cvosjoe]

I first noticed the cupping around 5k. It wasn't too bad at this point. The more miles I put on the worse it got.  When I took the bike in for my 10k service I asked the dealer to check it out and they said that they did not know why it was cupping.  I now have 13k on the bike and at interstate speed if you lean back against the back rest my back goes numb from the vibration. After reading on this web site that others were having the same issue I asked the dealer to call their tech support at the MoCo to see if there is an issue. I was informed by the service manager that the MoCo said they had a batch of wheels that were machined out of round. The MoCo told the dealer to replace the wheel and tire.

I run 40 psi front and rear (cold).

[9 1/2 Beers]

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=36170.0

[Dan_Lockwood]

I first noticed the cupping around 5k. It wasn't too bad at this point. The more miles I put on the worse it got.  When I took the bike in for my 10k service I asked the dealer to check it out and they said that they did not know why it was cupping.  I now have 13k on the bike and at interstate speed if you lean back against the back rest my back goes numb from the vibration. After reading on this web site that others were having the same issue I asked the dealer to call their tech support at the MoCo to see if there is an issue. I was informed by the service manager that the MoCo said they had a batch of wheels that were machined out of round. The MoCo told the dealer to replace the wheel and tire.

I run 40 psi front and rear (cold).

Now I don't claim to be the smartest person on vehicles, but I've been using them for more years than I'd like to remember.  A lot of them were bikes of all sorts and sizes ridden under varying conditions and types of riding, etc.

If you look at front tires on cars with an aggressive tread that have not been rotated for some time, you'll always notice some cupping.  One bikes, the same thing happens. 

On bikes it's much more pronounced than cars.  I too have had my front tire replaced at 6200 miles for cupping.

My belief is that it has nothing to do with the wheel, but the way you ride and the tire tread type.  I'm not an aggressive rider, but I do use the front brake almost exclusively.

Now this is where my opinion my differ from some of yours.

As you apply the front brake, the tire is actually trying to skid, but can't under normal stopping conditions.  So it will gradually wear from the friction of the trying to stop all the time.  As the tire patch hits the road, the leading or forward area of the tread will start to wear off causing the cupping.  Some tires with big water grooves across the center line of the tire will cup worse than tires with a solid tire without the tread grooves crossing the center line of the tire.  If you go back to the OLD days with knobby tires, they babies cupped really bad because of the aggressive amount of rubber and the extra height of the knobs.

As long as you use the brakes on your bike, you will eventually get tire cupping.  That's my opinion only.

Can balance cause issues, yes, but the brakes are in my opinion the main reason for tire cupping.

Now that I've opened that can of worms, any comments?

[Midnight Rider]

If I can throw my 2 cents worth in here.  All the things mentioned can contribute to cupping on a tire...low pressure, braking, etc.  And if you've got an out of round wheel, that could certainly cause it.  However, one of the main reasons for cupping on any tire is poor shocks/suspension.  Back in the old days when cars only had regular old shocks on the front and rear, a worn shock would cause brand new tires to cup in a matter of a few thousand miles.  In my younger days, I worked at Western Auto and did a lot of tire changing...my grandad also owned a Service Station (not a place just to get gas and beer, but real service station).  I have had to prove more than once to customers that there shocks were worn out and causing their tires to cup.  Some shocks I've pulled off you could literally stroke in and our with absolutely no effort at all.  Replace the shocks and the cupping on the next set of tires went away.  Once a tire is cupped, there's really no way to stop the process because it feeds on itself.

So, the point of all this is that the front end suspension on a stock HD is so poor that your tire is not even on the ground a great deal of the time, but is skipping accross the pavement, as the springs and piss poor valves cannot react quickly enough to the road surface.

The best solution to the problem is of course to spend money on a true cartridge system for both forks, with better springs.  Do a search for Traxxion Dynamics and you will have a lot of stuff to read.  The diffrence in how the bike feels under any and all circumstances is like the difference in driving a 68 Buick or a modern sports sedan.  Traxxion Dynamics is THE BEST front end suspension for a HD (or any bike, for that matter) out there.  It ain't cheap, but you get what you pay for.

[spydglide]

I agree with Terry.....it's the shocks and other things inherent in the balance of the wheel, not the brakes.  I use a LOT of front brake on my Glide and have little to no 'cupping' on the Dunlop.  spyder

[Dan_Lockwood]

I agree with Terry.....it's the shocks and other things inherent in the balance of the wheel, not the brakes.  I use a LOT of front brake on my Glide and have little to no 'cupping' on the Dunlop.  spyder

Spyder, what suspension upgrades do you have?

[spydglide]

Spyder, what suspension upgrades do you have?

Not  sure you'd call the Legend Air suspension a 'upgrade' for the rear and still 'stock' on the front (damnit !)  I still listen to all the great comments about the Traxxion and will probably eventually break down and make the trip that so many others have to upgrade.  har!  spyder

[Dan_Lockwood]

Not  sure you'd call the Legend Air suspension a 'upgrade' for the rear and still 'stock' on the front (damnit !)  I still listen to all the great comments about the Traxxion and will probably eventually break down and make the trip that so many others have to upgrade.  har!  spyder

Let me just say that everytime I read a thread here I learn more about that I thought I already knew all there was to know...  But I think I need to rethink my stance on tire cupping.  I'll even throw in some of the other threads that have taught me a thing or three.

I think tire cupping is a very hard item to diagnose.  I will agree that suspension, shocks, and other contributing factors all add to the problem. 

I wonder what would happen to the new tires that have NO tread across the center of the tire?  Almost a slick with side tread so to speak. 

Do slicks cup?

Do bias ply cup more than radials?

Do the dual compond tires like Avon Venom's or the new '09 touring tires cup as much?

I cleaned my bike really good on Saturday and while I had it up on the portable center lift, I could turn the rear tire over to clean the wheel.  Boy was I surprised at how bad the rear tire is cupped.  At 6200 I had a new front tire put on at the dealership as they have free tires for life as long as you have your service work performed by them.  That's why I've paid the long dollar so far to have the bike serviced by them.  The front tire at that mileage was down to the wear bars due to the cupping.  The rear tire is cupped badly, but still way far from the wear bars.  I also noticed a bit of a rear end shimmy at low speeds on the turns Sunday during our ride.  I'm sure it's from the cupping causing the rear to wobble off the cupped areas.

So I guess if I keep this ride, I need to seriously look at some upgrades on the suspension.

Can someone explain what the frontend of the touring bikes have for front suspension?  I've read that one fork has one type of control and the other has another type of control.  Then I read where you should get cartridges for the frontend and move on.  So showing my ignorance on the subject, what are the differences?

Inquiring minds would like to know?

Thanks.

[Beemer]

Now I don't claim to be the smartest person on vehicles, but I've been using them for more years than I'd like to remember.  A lot of them were bikes of all sorts and sizes ridden under varying conditions and types of riding, etc.

If you look at front tires on cars with an aggressive tread that have not been rotated for some time, you'll always notice some cupping.  One bikes, the same thing happens. 

On bikes it's much more pronounced than cars.  I too have had my front tire replaced at 6200 miles for cupping.

My belief is that it has nothing to do with the wheel, but the way you ride and the tire tread type.  I'm not an aggressive rider, but I do use the front brake almost exclusively.

Now this is where my opinion my differ from some of yours.

As you apply the front brake, the tire is actually trying to skid, but can't under normal stopping conditions.  So it will gradually wear from the friction of the trying to stop all the time.  As the tire patch hits the road, the leading or forward area of the tread will start to wear off causing the cupping.  Some tires with big water grooves across the center line of the tire will cup worse than tires with a solid tire without the tread grooves crossing the center line of the tire.  If you go back to the OLD days with knobby tires, they babies cupped really bad because of the aggressive amount of rubber and the extra height of the knobs.

As long as you use the brakes on your bike, you will eventually get tire cupping.  That's my opinion only.

Can balance cause issues, yes, but the brakes are in my opinion the main reason for tire cupping.

Now that I've opened that can of worms, any comments?

I've got 5K and both my tires are cupping...the front is cupping more on the sides and TRAILING EDGE OF THE TREAD...not the front.  It feels like I'm riding my 68 Bultaco 250 Matador...ONLY WITH A LOT MORE POWER

[spydglide]

I've got 5K and both my tires are cupping...the front is cupping more on the sides and TRAILING EDGE OF THE TREAD...not the front.  It feels like I'm riding my 68 Bultaco 250 Matador...ONLY WITH A LOT MORE POWER

Have you checked the balance of the tires?  spyder

[Beemer]

Taking it to the dealer today.  The rear is cupping from the leading edge while the front is cupping from the trailing edge...strange

[skreminegul07]

My 07 SERK radials cupped real bad and junk by 8000.  The standard Dunlops on my 04 Road Kung laster 12-14K and didn't cup.  I do not think you can blame the suspension or braking as far as my personal experience on all the HDs I've owned.