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[sawyerghost]

A friend of mine is considering a tuner for his 96 engine.
I have the Pro SERT and seem to be pleased with it.
However he is considering the Thundermax Tuner, any one have a thought on the Thundermax verses the Pro SERT.?

[Smuuth]

I had the Thundermax version 1 on my 03 Road King and it was the only thing that cured my pinging problem after I rebuilt the engine to 95 inch and installed gear-drive S&S cams.  I had tried the SERT and the Power Commander III and neither did any good.  Version 1 of the Thundermax was not autotune and had to be mapped on the dyno, but I had good luck with it and ended with a 13.6/1 AFR all the way up the curve.

The current Thundermax includes autotune and 02 sensors, so everyone says it is much better.  However, Zipper's Performance still does not have a version for the 08 or 09 touring bikes with the throttle by wire.  They say they are working on it.  I can tell you that I will be putting one on my 09 SERG as soon as it is available.

[Twolanerider]

The current Thundermax includes autotune and 02 sensors, so everyone says it is much better. 

Not everyone.

[SBB]

Not everyone.

 

[Diamondback]

 

My 07 SE Ultra ran terrible until I installed the Thunder Max with O2 WB sensors.  HD tried the several fixes for the severe pinging and excessive heat.

With the ThunderMax I ran over 6000 miles with no engine issues.  Ran great and the mileage actually did not get worse.

Power up mileage the same.

Would never use the SERT.  Expensive and didn't work.  Plus even a minor change to the engine requires another Dyno.


However, ThunderMax did not have a solution for the 09 series of touring bikes and thus I went with PC V with Autotune.
 

[Smuuth]

Not everyone.

My statement was relative to the original Thundermax.  If you have a problem or want to disagree with a statement, it would be more helpful if you would elaborate on your reasons, otherwise you are adding nothing of value to the thread.

[Twolanerider]

My statement was relative to the original Thundermax.

Me too.

If you have a problem or want to disagree with a statement

Thanks, but I did that already.  Couple of posts earlier up there ^ .

it would be more helpful if you would elaborate on your reasons

Done that before.  As have many others.  There's a little button up top labeled "search."  Give it a try.

otherwise you are adding nothing of value to the thread.

Actually....  My general statement of disagreement was no less of a blanket statement than was your statement of praise.  You said it was good.  Not much else. I said that not everyone agreed with that.  Not much else.  Neither of us delivered an exegesis on why.

If you want to do an ad seriatim analysis of the pros and cons of the application and support of the hardware I'll play.  Though it's such a well covered topic anymore (damn that search tool) it's a gawdawful boring thing to get in to.  So if you want to dance on this you'll have to lead.  I'll just follow in step.

[Smuuth]

Actually, I didn't mean to come across so confrontational.  I apologize for that.

My experience with the Thundermax version 1 was good.  I have installed the Thundermax with autotune on a friend's 08 Softail Deluxe and it is working well.  I did not search the board for other opinions on the Thundermax, but was only trying to provide information based on my experience to the OP of this thread.

[cola]

After mine left me with having to pull the main fuse & re-booting twice on trips, they sent me a new one, so I sold it. It sat on the shelf for a year or so first. I went with the TTS for my Road Glide.
Mike

[Twolanerider]

Actually, I didn't mean to come across so confrontational.  I apologize for that.

My experience with the Thundermax version 1 was good.  I have installed the Thundermax with autotune on a friend's 08 Softail Deluxe and it is working well.  I did not search the board for other opinions on the Thundermax, but was only trying to provide information based on my experience to the OP of this thread.

No sweat.  There unfortunately has been a fair sized cohort that had some significant problems with application of the T-Max.  The concensus always boiled down to "some do, some don't, and those of us that didn't envy those of you that do have good experiences."

The autotuning function can sometimes just get it wrong.  Especially if the base map isn't very close to begin with.  And many of Zippers supplied base maps are unfortunately works of fanciful conceit rather than dedicated tuning effort.  If someone is fortunate enough to have a good base map, or if someone has one of the very very few T-Max tuners close to them they've often had good experiences.

Without those, however, or god help those that ever might hope in depth support from the company itself lots of guys were very disappointed.  The hardware itself has real promise.  That was almost universally admitted.  The software and support to make it go in application, however, was a real headache for many. 
Many within the community here bailed and just pulled them off.  After considerable time and effot.  At least a couple had engines damaged with a too likely accurate belief that T-Max judgements had a roll in their failure.  So as had been said often before, if yours is doing you well I envy you the satisfaction and the effect.  Very glad it's working well for you.  Unfortunately quite a few weren't so fortunate.

[Diamondback]

 

The scary thought here is that all of spent an significant amount of money from HD to buy a bike with an engine Fuel Management issue to start with and thus the many aftermarket guys for fuel management solutions.  I know HD has to deal with EPA. But its a shame to spend $35000 and then spend another $1,000 to make the bike run cooler and have reasonable power. 

I agree that the base map needs to be close for autotune to work and there in lies a problem.  My experience with the ThunderMax was one of the very good ones.  My experience with the Fuel Pak solution has been terrible but some guys swear by them.

I haven't personally heard of many issues with the PCIII or the PC V (of which I have plus the Autotune), but I'm sure there are bikes with issues.

The HD solution is to bypass the NB sensors and go open loop (defeats the purpose of O2 sensors in the first place).  My experience with the HD solution is it works with the given set of gas, altitude, and temp for that bike on that day on that dyno tune.  Take that same bike to lower octane gas, high altitude and high temp's and it will run poorly if not terrible.  The WB O2 sensors in my experience greatly assist in overcoming these design issues.  But the base map is the key.  You should not have to allow the autotune to deal with a poor base map.  The autotune is designed to accommodate the variations in gas, altitude, temp and humidity.

Just an engineers view.

[Ironhorse]

Well,........

Like many others my experience with Thundermax Version 1 was less than memorable. I found both the product and the support to be lacking. Version 2 with auto-tune is a much better product, but once again support is lacking. My bike does run better. All I am doing now is tweaking it for better mpgs. I started out with 29mpgs. I changed maps and over the Solvang run I consistently got 35mpgs. I am continuing to tweak it hoping for somewhere between 38-42mpgs. We'll see.

Anyway it is a much better option than the Magnetti-Marelli system that came with the bike.

[sportygordy]

I ran the Daytona Twin Tec TCFI III Fuel Injection Controller with Twin Scan on my 07 Ultra and loved it. The TCFI is similar to the Thundermax Tuner, and some claim that DTT actually designed and built the T-Max unit, but this is not proven. I will say DTT support and their base map library is unsurpassed. Unfortunately, just as Thundermax they do not offer a throttle by wire version yet. Rumor has it, DTT will release a piggy back module for 2009 an up throttle by wire bikes allowing auto tune with wide band sensors. I have asked Chris over at DTT straight up if this is true. He will not say yea or nay but defiantly not denying the rumor so i suspect something holds true here. I'm hoping they will come through. As i stated their customer support is awesome along with their products and they actually treat and value their customers like gold.. Where as there are a couple here that don't.

Not to throw a wrench on this subject, but i just herd on the evening news tonight that California is passing a smoke check law for motorcycles. Starting 2010 California motorcycle owners will be required to do annual smog checks and the exhaust systems must be stamped with an EPA approved ratting and they plan on enacting a decibel noise test as well. This is really chity news.. I have no idea how were going to get around this one..  

[Diamondback]

 

One of my best friends uses the ThunderMax and he is the consumate tinkerer.  He has advanced the timing significantly at each power point and has increased his gas mileage into the low 40's plus the bike runs great.

His afr is 13.5.

He hated ThunderMax (and HD SERT even more) until he started messing with the timing map.

Just a thought.

[Red 07 SE]

I have a 2007 SE Road King I installed SE 251s, heads ported by Burley, SE10.5 pistons and a ThunderMax with auto tune.
Does anyone know how long it takes the TMax to learn?
I have 200 miles on the build when i throttle it from a stop light it sometimes pings and back fires out of the throttle body, at times it is bad enough that it almost stalls the engine.
Anyone have any suggestions?