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[GtreetSlide]

The PCs were always good units as long as the build wasn't too radical. My last PC was a USB III model, but I finally gave up and got the original SERT for my 95 motor. I just couldn't adjust the PC enough to compensate for the settings in the ECU being so far off for the build. I was running a stage I map (with 6200 rpm limit) and the PC on top of a 11:1 compression, high lift cams build.

I just assumed that the 110 CVO bikes would come with a 6200 rev limit, but maybe that's not cool with the EPA I guess. I would like to play with a new PCV just to see how far they have come, but I went with the TTS because it would download my original 103 stage II map and save it for later if needed. The TTS was pretty simple to use with good results and I like the fact it allows you to adjust most of the ECUs tables. My 09 is just a stage II 103 build however, so the PCV would have been fine for it I assume.

jb

[grc]

Birdman, there is still something about all of this that doesn't sound kosher.  If in fact the PC-V is keeping your tach from exceeding 5000 rpm, how is it that other folks with the PC-V are able to run theirs up to 5800 rpm (see some of the earlier posts in this thread)?  I notice that you have been dealing with the dealership and not directly with DynoJet.  Not that I would ever intimate that a dealership could be FOS or maybe even lie to cover up their incompetence, but I believe if it were me I would be talking directly to DynoJet.  Something about this story doesn't ring true.   

BTW, unless you change out the cams on that 110 you are wasting your time trying to run it past 5000 rpm anyway.  At that point all you are doing is making noise and wearing out parts, the power curve is dropping like the proverbial rock.  Short-shifting at 4500 rpm is the way to quicker acceleration with a stock 110, not 6200 rpm shifts. 

Jerry

[Smuuth]

Now I am being told that there is not a download for my bike.  Once they enter my VIN in the computer for the download there is no download for it.  So now the dealership is waiting for a responce from Harley motor company technical support.  Once I find out what they are going to do I will update.
Steve, I believe this is what the download will do and that is about it.

Ask the dealer to show you the printout from the Harley-Davidson Digital Technician II for your bike. 
It should show an ECM calibration ID of 31841-09A. 
If it does, your ECM has the latest factory download.  If it does not, there is an updated download.

[GtreetSlide]

I don't know about the 110, but a good dyno-tuned 103 with the stock 255 cams can pull over 90 hp up to about 6000 rpm. Yes the TQ drops off quickly, but the proof is in the pudding so to speak. My 103 with 255s still pulls good well above 4500. I don't feel a seat of the pants loss in acceleration until about 5500 rpms on mine. Most aftermarket TQ cams pull strong up thru 6000 as well. It's all in the parts combinations and most importantly the tune. My 02 95 motor is still pulling like a race horse at 7000rpm. I would think a well tuned 110 with 255s should pull about 110 TQ and 100HP with a good pull to 6000 as well.

Given the choice between TTS and PCV (with it's speedo issues and inability to alter the base ECU tables), I would have to go with TTS.

The best advice I got off this board so far was about the Fullsac cores. I went with the 2" and am more than happy with the performance and sound. Sounds like a Harley, but don't need ear plugs to keep from going deaf.

JMO,

jb

[Diamondback]

 

Here's my two cents worth.

I have in the numerous years of riding rarely ever go above 5000 rpm and when I do I am not looking at the tach to see where it is.  Having had a SERT, ThunderMax and now the PC V, I am most happy with the PC V.  The TTS is obviously a well conceived and functional solution.

It is interesting to me the HD set's the rev limiter at 5200 and why is this.  Probably because they don't want the engine above that limit.

I ride in many various conditions from the extreme South Texas heat (yesterday it hit 99 and 80% humidity, OUCH) to the very cold mountains of Colorado and the high heat of the Colorado mountains.  I like the WB 02 sensors not the NB and I think the closed loop system is better for my riding (probably most).

I have spent way too much money on Dyno machines and I piddle with my bikes configuration too much (pipes etc) to keep going back.

However, I do agree a well tuned open loop system will perform excellent. 

[GtreetSlide]

Yes, it all depends on riding style. I still love to take my 95 to the ragged edge at 7000 rpms quite often. It's the balanced softail motor with over 50K on it...

I usually don't take the bagger over 5000.

jb

[grc]

I don't know about the 110, but a good dyno-tuned 103 with the stock 255 cams can pull over 90 hp up to about 6000 rpm. Yes the TQ drops off quickly, but the proof is in the pudding so to speak. My 103 with 255s still pulls good well above 4500. I don't feel a seat of the pants loss in acceleration until about 5500 rpms on mine. .........................................................

JMO,

jb

Depends on the gear ratio.  Any bike can be run to the point of valve float in 1st without a "seat of the pants" loss in acceleration.  That's due to the torque multiplication of the gear ratio.  As you go to higher and higher gears, you will feel a definite drop off with the "seat of the pants" dyno, and when you get to 5th it's extremely unlikely that 255 will even come close to pulling your new rev limit.

The attachment is a cut and paste from the SE Pro catalog.  Let H-D speak for itself about the capabilities of the 255 cam, and then look at what it takes to actually do what you claim with a 103.  More like a stage III or stage IV.

Don't take my word for it, take that beast to the drag strip and make a few runs.  First, don't shift until 6200 in each gear.  Then adjust your shift points so that you keep the rpm's near the torque peak after each shift (it will vary by gear, as there is a bigger rpm drop between 1st and 2nd, a little less between 2nd and 3rd, etc.).  Let the time slips tell the story, not the "seat of the pants" dyno.

Jerry

[GtreetSlide]

Don't take my word for it, here is just one example:
http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=9718.0

jimbob

[GtreetSlide]

Jerry, I appreciate your input, but the plain fact is that Harley does not tune bikes for performance, just to please the EPA. So throwing up an HD SE dyno chart is rather pointless in my opinion.    The dyno link I posted shows that potential available to anyone willing to do the work and tune for performance.
 
Jimbob

[timo482]

thats sort of harsh - and one sided at the least

i have not hit 4500 rpm on purpose in at least 15 years, well since the 80's...... the last time was when a old bag pulled out in front of me and after smoking the tires i went down one too many gears before i let the clutch back out.

im running a bagger & have been running a bagger with or without a sidecar since 82 - what i care about is the torque and hp between 2000 and 4500 - everything above that for me & many others is a total waste of time, money, hassle. in a word -  pointless. so for you to say harley doesn't do performance is just plain wrong - most aftermarket everything, pipes, mufflers, cams, you name it ruin the power where ive been riding for a long time... so while those who RACE need big cams and open exhaust - MOST folks will be disappointed when there power to pass the truck at 40 just flat goes away - gone - have to drop two gears to do it.. i ran loud pipes once for about a year in 1979 - now every mod i ever do i look at real dyno sheets for the highest smoothest peak between 2k and 4.5k. the charts for stage 3 and 4 are for the strip - not the street.

im not alone - anybody who really rides on the street & never races - the 103 stage II kit as is would be a dream power combo. the stock 110 has a really great power curve - its the reliability and heat i worry about. it really is pointless to have a really hot bike that is parked at a shop getting fixed, i want to ride the thing, not look at it. to that end im saving up cash and when the economy improves im going to do in order - baker reverse, timken, weld & true, 255, 103.

to

[Birdman]

It does not matter how I ride or how anyone else.  Whether I hit 5,000 RMP everytime I ride or I am taking it easy.  If I am getting on it I know when I need to shift just from the years of riding.  My point about the PC-V is that is degrades my scooter.  Yes it helps with the tuning but it in my opinion it still degrades my bike by disabling the Tac sensor or what ever it is doing to the Tac and who knows what else it may be doing ?? 
I just like everyone else paid a lot of money for my motorcycle.  Like someone else posted on this thread Harley does not tune our scooters for performance!  They tune it so they can pass the EPA standards.  If we chose to get the best performance from our scooters then we have to pay out more $$.  Well I decided I wanted to get more performace out of my SERG and bought the PC-V because I thought it was the best at the time.  I am not very happy that Dyno Jet is not standing behind it. 

Buyer beware if you buy the PC-V you will most likely have the same problem.

I do trust the guys working on my bike. It took a few trial and errors to find a dealership I trust.
Jerry,
  I am not sure why some people it works with.  They may have been able to get the SE download.  I have the latest download.   

[GtreetSlide]

Sorry if I offended anyone. Appeared to me that I was being singled out as being untruthful. I simply presented the facts and backed them up with proof. I didn't say the factory couldn't do performance, I just said any HD performance kits are not running at full potential because they are tuned to meet EPA. There is always a lot more to get out of an HD with some real tuning. Just do your homework before you call me out with BS about my statements being impossible.

And yes, I agree with the last post. There is no excuse for a product that claims to be a tuner, but can't work with you tach properly.

JMO

Thanks and sorry for ruffing any feathers,

Jimbob

[HOGMIKE]

Sorry if I offended anyone. Appeared to me that I was being singled out as being untruthful. I simply presented the facts and backed them up with proof. I didn't say the factory couldn't do performance, I just said any HD performance kits are not running at full potential because they are tuned to meet EPA. There is always a lot more to get out of an HD with some real tuning. Just do your homework before you call me out with BS about my statements being impossible.

And yes, I agree with the last post. There is no excuse for a product that claims to be a tuner, but can't work with you tach properly.

JMO

Thanks and sorry for ruffing any feathers,

Jimbob

That's whats nice about this site, you get many views on a subject. You have to draw your own conclusions with the information you gather (check out the threads on muffler/header issues, for example).
Personalities will always be different, especially in different parts of the country/world! Tolerance.
Not all statements here will be true, but, I really don't think any of us would give false information to other members. It would be statements that WE found to be true and work for our application.
Just because a combo of parts/tunes works for one of us, does not necessarily work for someone else. It would be just a "starting point" to get you on a fast track to your goal. Remember, not all our goals will be the same. For instance: sound levels for mufflers; HP and torque curves; shock, etc, etc.
Bottom line: research, homework, make your best decision, enjoy your results, you gave it the best shot you had!
I believe most of us on this forum are here to help and share ideas of our experiences with our bikes.
Hopefully to help the next guy from spending too much time and money with poor results.
I hope this helps a bit.
Mike

[Diamondback]

 

I agree.


As a very satisfied PC V with Autotune user, I sent a support Email to Dynojet expressing my concerns about the Tach issue.  I agree there must be a better explanation.  My bike runs better than my 07 with lots of dyno's and lots of "wasted" money until the end. 

Although, I don't use the extended Rev feature I agree there needs to be a better explanation.

 

[GtreetSlide]

That's whats nice about this site, you get many views on a subject. You have to draw your own conclusions with the information you gather (check out the threads on muffler/header issues, for example).
Personalities will always be different, especially in different parts of the country/world! Tolerance.
Not all statements here will be true, but, I really don't think any of us would give false information to other members. It would be statements that WE found to be true and work for our application.
Just because a combo of parts/tunes works for one of us, does not necessarily work for someone else. It would be just a "starting point" to get you on a fast track to your goal. Remember, not all our goals will be the same. For instance: sound levels for mufflers; HP and torque curves; shock, etc, etc.
Bottom line: research, homework, make your best decision, enjoy your results, you gave it the best shot you had!
I believe most of us on this forum are here to help and share ideas of our experiences with our bikes.
Hopefully to help the next guy from spending too much time and money with poor results.
I hope this helps a bit.
Mike

Thanks Mike. Wasn't trying to start a head-butting contest. Sometimes I am a little too direct with my opinion. I spent many of my younger years building drag cars and restoring American Supercars. Been riding cycles for way over 40 years now and I only talk about what I know from expierence. My Deuce turns about 115 HP and TQ, which a lot of people seem to think that is impossible from a 95 too.

Not having any hands on with the 110, I have paid a lot of attention to the problems/issues with the newer CVOs. I can't make any decisions about the cylinder design flaws as proposed, but I do know that any HD comes home from the dealer with one major issue. It's Heat! Unfortunately, that is something that results from EPA regulations resulting in motors designed to remove any undesireable wastes from the exhausts. I just think the rest of the world should make a little more effort to reduce polution before we mandate ourselfs into bankruptcy. Anyway, back on subject; the cat converter is simply a restriction in the pipe that reduces engine effeciency by chemically burning out the polluntants that make it past the overly lean combustioin cycle. Removing cats and putting good baffles in the exhaust (or exhaust sytems designed for efficiency) allow much more out of any motor than it's stock brother. Enough said...

Having run open pipes for years until I started to expierence hearing loss, I was really happy with the results from the fullsac cores I learned about here. great exhaust performance with pleasant, yet non-deafening sound levels.

A good dyno tuner is an artist, however they are hard to find and expoensive considering a new dyno tune required for every change. I have used many SERTs now, along with TTS mastertune with great success. The TTS has developed a wonderful system for us wanting a good tune without dyno expenses. I have heard a lot of good about the PCV as well, but if they are going to compete, they need to work out those occasional bugs (example: tach). I run the TTS updater program weekly which frequently result in a download to make another improvement. Although I've used several versions of PC in the past, they need to step up to the plate on this one and show some customer loyality.

This is a great forumn and I have learned a bunch from those on here willing to share knowledge and expierence. You can get more skill from these forums in a week than by going to mechanics school for a year. The guys on here are doing a great job sharing, so don't take me too seriously. Even when I come across pretty rough, just remember I have a smile on my face and just want to share and learn as well. Riding styles are the riders freedom. I know a lot of people like to keep it 5 under the speed limit and shift at lower rpms. that just doen't work for me. I push out my 103 Street Glide to 5000 and even 5500-6000 rpms frequently. trust me on this one. No one will pass me by shifting any earlier. there are only two reasons in my opinion to shift at 4500; one: it's not tuned to optimum.. or two: you just are not in a hurry or want that motor to last forever...

Jimbob