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[GtreetSlide]

Oh, forgot to mention: I'm currently running the Headquarters ProTuner on my deuce. It doesn't require any tuning efforts; just plug and play. It takes about 200 miles to dial itself in to a group of preset performance tables. Really a nice unit for a radical motor. I would love to see how one would work with the new CVO 110s. it makes my Deuce run cooler without sacrificing gas milage; and even with a 200 rear tire, it can still get scary on shifts occasionally.

jimbob

[HOGMIKE]

Thanks Mike. Wasn't trying to start a head-butting contest. Sometimes I am a little too direct with my opinion. I spent many of my younger years building drag cars and restoring American Supercars. Been riding cycles for way over 40 years now and I only talk about what I know from expierence. My Deuce turns about 115 HP and TQ, which a lot of people seem to think that is impossible from a 95 too.

Not having any hands on with the 110, I have paid a lot of attention to the problems/issues with the newer CVOs. I can't make any decisions about the cylinder design flaws as proposed, but I do know that any HD comes home from the dealer with one major issue. It's Heat! Unfortunately, that is something that results from EPA regulations resulting in motors designed to remove any undesireable wastes from the exhausts. I just think the rest of the world should make a little more effort to reduce polution before we mandate ourselfs into bankruptcy. Anyway, back on subject; the cat converter is simply a restriction in the pipe that reduces engine effeciency by chemically burning out the polluntants that make it past the overly lean combustioin cycle. Removing cats and putting good baffles in the exhaust (or exhaust sytems designed for efficiency) allow much more out of any motor than it's stock brother. Enough said...

Having run open pipes for years until I started to expierence hearing loss, I was really happy with the results from the fullsac cores I learned about here. great exhaust performance with pleasant, yet non-deafening sound levels.

A good dyno tuner is an artist, however they are hard to find and expoensive considering a new dyno tune required for every change. I have used many SERTs now, along with TTS mastertune with great success. The TTS has developed a wonderful system for us wanting a good tune without dyno expenses. I have heard a lot of good about the PCV as well, but if they are going to compete, they need to work out those occasional bugs (example: tach). I run the TTS updater program weekly which frequently result in a download to make another improvement. Although I've used several versions of PC in the past, they need to step up to the plate on this one and show some customer loyality.

This is a great forumn and I have learned a bunch from those on here willing to share knowledge and expierence. You can get more skill from these forums in a week than by going to mechanics school for a year. The guys on here are doing a great job sharing, so don't take me too seriously. Even when I come across pretty rough, just remember I have a smile on my face and just want to share and learn as well. Riding styles are the riders freedom. I know a lot of people like to keep it 5 under the speed limit and shift at lower rpms. that just doen't work for me. I push out my 103 Street Glide to 5000 and even 5500-6000 rpms frequently. trust me on this one. No one will pass me by shifting any earlier. there are only two reasons in my opinion to shift at 4500; one: it's not tuned to optimum.. or two: you just are not in a hurry or want that motor to last forever...

Jimbob

I have followed much the same course as you. My complaint on my '09 Ultra was HEAT!
I have taken steps to reduce the heat: removal of the cat in the head pipe, less restrictive mufflers (Fullsac's)
TTS tune. It worked.
As you may know, the cat works by getting super hot, and burning off the "pollutants" of combustion. (simple explanation) along with the lean tune. The cat in the '09 header is actually quite "free flowing" compared to other designs. I make this statement from feedback from dyno runs before and after that another member here has made.
So, the cat does not restrict as much as some would believe, but, it DOES generate much heat! That being said, my statement applies to the 96" motors, bigger "performance" combos of any kind, and it's probably best to lose the cat.
I, too, have been riding Harleys and Indians for many years, and am always looking for a little more power, but, not at the expense of reliability. I ride year 'round, and need my bikes to be reliable. My "fast" bike has an S&S 113, and I love it! It is EXACTLY what I was looking for in that bike. Yes, I know, there is more power out there, but, this suits my needs! Hell, my '65 is 93" low compression, and will run with the new bikes (great head work).
It's great to share ideas here, what works for one application MAY not be your cup-o-tea! But, at least you have something to think about, right?
Yep, research, homework, sound decisions........great info on this forum!
Mike

[GtreetSlide]

Mike,
Just out of curiousity, I assume you used a TTS base map, just curious how you set your Closed Loop Bias table?  I tuned mine set at 684 (14.63) but am moving the voltage to 781 (14.43) for closed loop to see if I can get the heat down even more.

Thanks, jimBob

[HOGMIKE]

Mike,
Just out of curiousity, I assume you used a TTS base map, just curious how you set your Closed Loop Bias table?  I tuned mine set at 684 (14.63) but am moving the voltage to 781 (14.43) for closed loop to see if I can get the heat down even more.

Thanks, jimBob

I have a custom map, using V-Tune, but, it's pretty close to a stock (a/c and mufflers) map.
My bias is at 762. If you check the help files there are hints where to start. I was cautioned not to set the mixture too rich, degrades the O2 sensors more quickly. I am satisfied with my tune, but, I may still play with it a bit when I get back home. Heat issues have gone away. I monitor my oil temps to see where I'm at as far as heat. Bike drives and performs fine. My bike is not your "typical" setup, so, check what kind of riding YOU do before using anyone else's map. V-Tune works pretty good, next best thing to a dyno, but, it takes some time and patience. I'm not real comfortable with computer work, but, there are people that will really help you out here. Again, research and homework will help!
Mike

[Birdman]

I don't think you can offend anyone on this site.  Surely not me.  I f I sounded offend I was not.   

Oh, forgot to mention: I'm currently running the Headquarters ProTuner on my deuce. It doesn't require any tuning efforts; just plug and play. It takes about 200 miles to dial itself in to a group of preset performance tables. Really a nice unit for a radical motor. I would love to see how one would work with the new CVO 110s. it makes my Deuce run cooler without sacrificing gas milage; and even with a 200 rear tire, it can still get scary on shifts occasionally.
jimbob

Jimbob, I am going to check into the headquarters ProTurner for my SERG.   

I also am going to check into a terminal Velocity tuner.  I have been told that it is a very good tuner also.

Diamondback,  Thanks for sending an email to Dynojet.  I'm doing the same this morning.  I would put up some pics if I could get my scooter back from the shop. 

I have another friend that installed PC-V on his SEUC had the rev limiter extended to 6200 RPMS he has the same issue that I do.  Although he does not take his to the limit much he did test it and found the same results I did.   I believe he is sending Dynojet and email also.

I ask that if you are using the PC-V and notice the same problem with your scooter please let Dynojet know. 

Thanks, Mike

[Smuuth]

Looking at the websites for both the Headquarters protuner and the Terminal Velocity tuner, neither one appears to be available for the 2009 bikes.

 

[Birdman]

Smuuth,
  I haven't had a chance to look yet.  Thanks for that update.  That really blows.

I just got an email back from Dynojet.  They are saying Because, of the fly by wire with our bike the only way they were able to make the rev Xtend was to do something that messes with the tac.  They are telling me the samething they told the dealership is that I need to do a stage one download to fix the problem.  I am in the process of sending them another email telling them this is unacceptable and I will be looking for another turner they is designed to work with my Bike.

[GtreetSlide]

http://www.head-quarters.com/injection.html

I'm not sure, but I think the 08 model is the same, you could ask them. You need a good working base map which they will provide for SERT or TTS, but I would love to see how one would work with the 110 motor (especially the heat issues). The 11:1 compression of my 95 meant dealing with spark timing issues while encountering altitude changes (along with bad gas). Now my 95 takes a while to warm up and never gets real hot, so I know the protuner is adjusting on the fly like they claim. It has a jumper wire that disables it for when you want to run data runs. You can reset the "learned" tables if you make changes and want it to start fresh. Although the protuner (or any other self-tuner I know of) won't alter your timing, it definitely will keep your AFR in line. Good product for a radical motor build and definitely keeps my 95 cool.

I've never tried the Terminal Velocity, product so can't give any feedback there.

I started out with really lean CLB tables, but the TTS has worked great on my 09 street glide (103bb). I'm trying a long trip next week to see how it works for changing travel conditions. Although it's running a lot cooler, I'm retuning it today with higher mv CLBs to see if I can get it even cooler.

jimbob

[Diamondback]

 

To all:

I checked with my dealer and the issue is the stock ECM without a download does not allow the HD tach to go above 5000.  The Mastertune TTS (and obviously the SSERT from HD) replaces the ECM and thus they can send the tach to any limit they want.

Since the PC V does not replace the HD ECM, Dynojet cannot override the stock HD which still controls the tach and it stops at 5000.  However, you can get a download from HD that will allow the tach to go to 6200.  And yes, it costs about $200.00.

I got the same response from Fuel Moto.  Seems without the download from HD  the PC V will not go above 5000 on the tach but the bike with ReV Extend will go to 6200.

Dynojet debated as to not have the feature but elected to include it.

That's the situation.  I am happy with the PC V and may in fact turn off the Rev Extend.  Makes me wonder why HD sets up the bike at 5000 anyway and then if you buy the SSERT they bump it up?

Any ideas?

Fuel Moto says either the TTS or the PC V are fine.

 

[HOGMIKE]

To all:

I checked with my dealer and the issue is the stock ECM without a download does not allow the HD tach to go above 5000.  The Mastertune TTS (and obviously the SSERT from HD) replaces the ECM and thus they can send the tach to any limit they want.

Since the PC V does not replace the HD ECM, Dynojet cannot override the stock HD which still controls the tach and it stops at 5000.  However, you can get a download from HD that will allow the tach to go to 6200.  And yes, it costs about $200.00.

I got the same response from Fuel Moto.  Seems without the download from HD  the PC V will not go above 5000 on the tach but the bike with ReV Extend will go to 6200.

Dynojet debated as to not have the feature but elected to include it.

That's the situation.  I am happy with the PC V and may in fact turn off the Rev Extend.  Makes me wonder why HD sets up the bike at 5000 anyway and then if you buy the SSERT they bump it up?

Any ideas?

Fuel Moto says either the TTS or the PC V are fine.

 

You might want to check more into Mastertune TTS, as far as price, flexibility, value, etc, etc.
I'm sure other devices will work depending on what your needs are, but, I like the idea of not adding any "piggy-back" devices on to the bike's OEM ECM to send "adjusted" data to the ECM. If you are looking at an '08 or '09 touring bike, I think you will have a hard time finding anything with the flexibility of the TTS ! Whatever you decide to do to your bike in the future, you will only have to buy ONE tuning device, and then, elect to tune it yourself, or let a good dyno guy do it for you!
You can contact a couple members on here with much more knowledge than I for specific information, I'm sure.
Best place to start would probably be Steve at Fullsac.com. Good guy, easy to talk to.
I hope this helps.
Mike

[Diamondback]

 

When I had my Thundermax, they actually recommend keeping the HD ECM in the saddle bags so if something goes wrong you can replace the Thundermax with the HD ECM and get home.

Same thing with the PC V.  Take it out of the loop and the HD ECM will get you home.  Albeit very rich.  But it will get you home.  The HD stock assumes with no feed back from the NB O2 sensors there deed and opens the AFR to 12.2 (or something like that).

That said I like the WB O2 sensors.  Why have an O2 sensor if you are going to bypass it and run the bike in an open loop mode(or semi closed loop).  I understand that O2 sensors cause more complexity but hey we all use to ride bikes with chains, chokes and drum brakes (and some of us like me a kick start).  Now we have ABS disk brakes, EFI, electric start, cruise control and ECM and an Aramid belt drive.  At least HD hasn't gone to a shaft drive.

I know that HD goes with NB O2 sensors to beat the EPA at constant throttle.  Just seems to make sense to go with WB O 2 sensors that adjust for a wider AFR rating at normal throttle and adjust for temp, altitude, humidity and non-premium gas.

That said the TTS is a very good solution.


 

I am very happy with the PC V.  It has good power and throttle response and best yet it gets better gas mileage than the stock 110 two up which is a plus.  And it doesn't run hot.



 

[Smuuth]

so let me understand this:  IF you get the stage 1 download for the stock ECM (thus raising the rev limit to 6200) and THEN put the PC V with autotune on there, the tach will be accurate above 5000 RPM? 

Is that right, or am I missing something?

 

[Diamondback]

 

That is exactly what Dynojet said would work  Install the Stage 1 download and it will reset the Tach to 6200 and the PC V will then go along.

Now, I am not going to do that but here is the full answer from Dynojet::

Due to this bike having fly-by-wire, the tachometer only showing 5000rpm is a byproduct of enabling the rev Xtend function of the Power Commander.  This is simply how we had to do it to include this feature.  When we developed the Power Commander for the 08 model we felt having rev Xtend was an important feature to include in the unit.  When we realized that the tachometer would only show 5000rpm we almost decided to not include this feature at all.  But we thought it made more sense to include the feature so the end user would not have to waste $150-200 at the dealer to get an ECM upgrade that did nothing but increase the RPM.

 

With the Rev Xtend enabled your bike will truly go to 6200rpm but the tachometer will only show 5000.  If you disable the Rev Xtend then the bike and the tachometer will go to 5600rpm.[/font]


And unless my dealer is not telling me something right, you can get a "download for the bike" that increases the rev limiter.

 

[GtreetSlide]

TTS doesn't replace the ECU, it programs it like a SERT only better...

jb

[Diamondback]

 

Thanks.

So it works better than the HD version but still in NB O2.