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[mr_magoo]

Was at the deal yesterday and he told me HD has final admited that they are behind in production and that bikes are running 3 week behind the ship date.  Seems they blame it on large orders of fleet bikes.

[GC_Super]

What do fleet bikes have to do with the CVO's? Are they made at the same plant?  Funny how the MOCO never seems to give a straight honest answer about anything.  I spoke with a MOCO guy at the International MC Show last weekend, and he told me they were behind
( CVO's) due to the complexity of the paint just taking longer than planned.

[WFP]

What do fleet bikes have to do with the CVO's? Are they made at the same plant?  Funny how the MOCO never seems to give a straight honest answer about anything.  I spoke with a MOCO guy at the International MC Show last weekend, and he told me they were behind
( CVO's) due to the complexity of the paint just taking longer than planned.

Based on my observations at the Tour in York last May, I would have to say that Fleet bikes could not have any impact on the CVO line.  Fleet bikes were made on the main assembly line (we saw several Police and FF bikes in various states of build).  The CVO assembly area was a completely stand alone operation.

/Bill

[Twolanerider]

Actually fleet bikes could impact on CVO production.  There are a lot of common parts after all.  If they pulled parts for fleet orders they couldv'e been short on supply for CVO orders.  Whether it's likely or not is a different question.  But it's possible.

[GC_Super]

Big numbers of fleet sales keep the stockholders happy also I guess.  I don't care anymore as Merrill Lynch dumped all my HD stock about 18 months ago.  :-/

[WFP]

Actually fleet bikes could impact on CVO production.  There are a lot of common parts after all.  If they pulled parts for fleet orders they couldv'e been short on supply for CVO orders.  Whether it's likely or not is a different question.  But it's possible.

True, I thought about that...frames came to mind but wouldn't the same number of frames pass though the assembly line wheteher Fleet or not...as well as many other parts.  Tha leaves the unique parts.  So what parts meet the following criteia such that they impact the CVO Line:

Not on a standard production bike
Found on a CVO bike
Found on a Fleet Bike

/Bill

[Twolanerider]

Wouldn't have to be just those criteria though.  If they had a significantly larger than expected fleet order to fill many common parts would be used as the "standard" bikes and the fleet bikes use almost all common parts except for harnesses, some lights and a few other trinkets.  Wouldn't have to be parts that are common only to fleet and CVO; common to fleet and "standard" bikes would do it too as most parts are shared between standard and CVO bikes as well.

Don't get me wrong.  I still think HD is yanking the 06 guy's chains.  And it is far more likely to be paint.  But the excuse is at least plausible.

[RedFXR2]

I haven't seen how the York plant is set up but could it be that a large fleet order has occupied the (usually) CVO line as well as the main one(s) in order to crank those bikes out faster?  I worked in manufacturing for a lot of years and have seen plants load their production lines according to what they need to do first and what order will bring in the most revenue the fastest.  "Specials" and low-quantity orders would almost always be delayed in order to make room for the big runs of stock products.

[grc]

Was at the deal yesterday and he told me HD has final admited that they are behind in production and that bikes are running 3 week behind the ship date.  Seems they blame it on large orders of fleet bikes.

Based upon previous experience, far and away the most likely cause for delays is the paint.  The folks actually doing the paint for the CVO bikes seem to have a lot of quality issues, or at least they sure did last year.

Jerry

[grc]

I haven't seen how the York plant is set up but could it be that a large fleet order has occupied the (usually) CVO line as well as the main one(s) in order to crank those bikes out faster?  I worked in manufacturing for a lot of years and have seen plants load their production lines according to what they need to do first and what order will bring in the most revenue the fastest.  "Specials" and low-quantity orders would almost always be delayed in order to make room for the big runs of stock products.

Large fleet orders usually also have definite dates for delivery of the entire order, so if they get behind it would be normal for the assembly facility to push other orders back to make sure they met the fleet order deadline.  I've been involved on the automotive side with just such a thing several times in the past 20 years.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

I haven't seen how the York plant is set up but could it be that a large fleet order has occupied the (usually) CVO line as well as the main one(s) in order to crank those bikes out faster?  

Nope, that's one thing it's almost certain not to be.  CVO production is a mechanical line (bikes on wooden carts shoved by workers on stools) in a separate building isolated from main production.  Even if it's facility was liberated for another use it couldn't make enough bikes to make a dent.  They might steal its people.  But its space would cost them more time to supply it and use then they would gain in using it.

[harley56]

Recently the MOCO has notified dealers for the second time this model year than some CVO shipments are running late.  This time they specified the CVO Fatboys as running an additional 3 weeks late and the CVO Ultras running an additional six weeks behind.  It is not their way to always go into the details as to why, that's just not always done by manufactuers; however I have never known the MOCO to lie about the reason.  Perhaps the person being asked doesn't know and should just say that rather than say what they believe is the answer.

This delay is for paint!  It is complex, they are having some struggles and have no desire to see inferior paint jobs make it on to motorcycles.

[_usa_eagle_]

I was told 2 weeks ago my ship date was still Nov 4,,   so I called yesturday and was told by the dealer,, that they had been notified,, that the Ultra CVO's  were 6 weeks behind on production.  Didnt give an explanation as to why,, only they were behind.  Maybe I will get for Christmas,, under the tree!!!   Ho-Ho-Ho!!

[RedFXR2]

CVO production is a mechanical line (bikes on wooden carts shoved by workers on stools) in a separate building isolated from main production.  Even if it's facility was liberated for another use it couldn't make enough bikes to make a dent.  They might steal its people.  But its space would cost them more time to supply it and use then they would gain in using it.

I know you've been there but I still think it (using the CVO line for stock bikes) could happen.  For example, HD made 3400 SE Fat Boys in 2005.  That's just one model.  I think the VRods are made in KC, and I don't know where the SEEG's are built, but let's assume that the York line only made the CVO Fat Boys.    Assuming a 50 week production year, that's 68 bikes per week.  Even if it took the same rate for a stock bike as a CVO--and stock bikes should go faster down the line, just 3 weeks (one of the time frames mentioned) worth of that rate is 204 bikes, a fleet order for some municipalities.  6 weeks would be 408 bikes.

And about paint, how many custom accessory paint sets does HD turn out in a year?  HD's web site lists 30 different custom paint sets for Softails, alone.  I didn't click all of them but it seems that 100 is listed as the quantity available on some styles.  3000 custom sets of tanks and fenders for Softails alone.  I don't see how they can turn out that quantity of many different styles of custom paint sets, many of which are also quite complex, and not be able to handle consistently producing a CVO paint job.  Besides, haven't they already produced complex paint jobs in quantity at the CVO before now?  Of course the accessory paint sets may be produced by a subcontract paint shop(s) and have nothing to do with the CVO but in that case, maybe HD should let those shops handle the paint for the CVO bikes.

Not to beat a dead horse, just some things I was wondering.

Hey, how about sending someone up there incognito on a plant tour and ask the guide some hard questions?

[Twolanerider]

I know you've been there but I still think it (using the CVO line for stock bikes) could happen.  

Red, the Glides and the Fatboys are built on the same "line" at York.  Actually a more accurate description would be different ends of the same table lined hallway.  The V-Rods are in Kansas City.  Also, while HD does all the production paint at York for the models produced there they don't do the SE paints there.  That's a subcontractor.