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[Steep]

Man, I left Mancuso HD today a bit steamed after I had my 1k service and SERT upgrade. In the past, I have used Power Commanders, so I was a bit surprised when they told me the tuner was in my saddlebag as I was leaving. I thought, huh? Why is it not on the bike. Pulled it out and a little black box with no instructions or cables to hook it up to my computer. I am thinking I need a debriefing on this deal.

Had my service writer explain to me that they load updated info into the ECM with this tuner while dynoing the bike, then I am supposed to hang on to it in case my ECM crashes and the info can be reloaded into a new ECM. That's it! I said, "so I own this unit, can't use it as I wish and I can't use it on my wife's bike to tune hers?" The answer as I knew it would be was, "no, you'll have to come back to us to do mods to your ECM and buy another tuner for hers."

As I am absorbing this, thinking this is a serious racket, since basically I am holding in my grubby little hand a glorified $2.00 memory stick for which I paid $400. I commented that I will definitely be going after-market in the future and he suggested that might not be such a great idea and went on to explain why. He said each year the MoCo writes new tricks into the ECMs that they do not reveal so that the after-market products will have problems and force the HD owners back to the HD tuners. He said the after-market units may work for a while, but on many occasions there will be probs down the road. I had no problem with them writing their own software, but to load in tricks to thwart the after-market and supposedly force me back to HD for what appears to be an inferior product does raise my ire.

Anyhoo, just a little venting on my part probably enhanced by the 98 degrees we enjoyed today. Oh yeah, he said the MoCo would do nothing about the nice 1 inch gap between my seat and the tank. I said not to worry, that the next bike I buy, I'll make the final deal, then insist on a new seat thrown in to compensate me for this one, which will come outta the dealer's pocket instead of the MoCo's pocket. He said he would get with the warranty person and do some more pushing with the MoCo......... We'll see.


Need a ride, sun's setting and it is down to a balmy 95 degrees, I'm outta here!

Steep

p.s. they adjusted steering head bearings under warranty.

[PR3VS56]

They should have given you the CD & cables.  You CAN hook it up to your computer & do anything you want.  True it is matched to your ECM and only your ECM.

[fourstar]

I'm not sure about the current state of the SERT, but are you referring to the "dongle" that marries to your ECM, or is it a USB "thumb drive" with just your map on it?  If you paid for the dongle, you at least bought the software, but unless they gave you something along with it like a CD or memory stick, you don't even have the map that they created on the dyno.  You should look into what you paid for and if you bought the dongle and CD, demand it.  If you buy the interface cables you can run it on your own laptop and tweak the tune yourself (if you take the time to learn how.)  The cables are available elsewhere and you may even be able to scare up the software if you check around on this board.  I think your service writer is a little off-base with the "tricks in the ECM" BS. Look around this forum and you'll find lots of info about SERT and tuning your ECM.

[SBB]

I guess what I don't understand is why someone would pay 400 bucks for something and not have a clue in advance as to what it does, how it works or understand it's purpose.


                                                                                         

[hard10]

I guess what I don't understand is why someone would pay 400 bucks for something and not have a clue in advance as to what it does, how it works or understand it's purpose.


                                                                                         

Now, now, now. There used to be rules about picking on the new guy. Someone is going to put you on Double Secret Probation, and I think you've been there before! Shame on you Don Chip.

[SBB]

Now, now, now. There used to be rules about picking on the new guy. Someone is going to put you on Double Secret Probation, and I think you've been there before! Shame on you Don Chip.

Good point AJ.
Your right, I'm sorry!


 
But on another note, I have been thinking about getting one of those bike video camera's.
I appreciate all the info on your thread about that.
I have also contacted the famous "Magic Rat" to help me to aquire knowledge so that I fully understand what I'm buying so that the quality of my purchase is in keeping with the amount of money spent.

SBB

 

[grc]

The scam artists at H-D saw a great opportunity a couple years back to make a bigger profit by selling the new version of the SERT as separate pieces instead of an all-inclusive kit like the original version.  Therefore, as the attachment from the SE Pro Catalog shows, the cables, the CD, and the training DVD are separate items.  A good dealership would have pointed that out during the initial discussions and not tried to slip it by you.

What did you pay that sleazebag for your SERT?  Look at the attachment and you will be able to determine if they screwed you or not.  If you paid for the CD, then by all means insist they give it to you.  They should also provide you with a disk (floppy, CD, whatever) with your customized map on it, so you can reload it if your ECM takes a dump and has to be replaced.  And don't go for that BS that they will have it on file in their computer; that won't help you if you have a failure halfway across the country.  The dongle and the disk with the map should stay with the bike for just such an occurrence.  And btw, you can buy the cables at most any computer supply store, and for a better price.

Jerry

[PR3VS56]

I carry my map on a thumb drive, along with the SERT.

[Twolanerider]

 Shame on you Don Chip.

Hey, wait just a damned minute!

Ah, never mind.  I deserved it .

[fourstar]

Wow, I didn't know they split it up like that.  Brilliant!!  Makes the TTS Mastertune I bought all the more appealing!!

[Steep]

I'm not sure about the current state of the SERT, but are you referring to the "dongle" that marries to your ECM, or is it a USB "thumb drive" with just your map on it?  If you paid for the dongle, you at least bought the software, but unless they gave you something along with it like a CD or memory stick, you don't even have the map that they created on the dyno.  You should look into what you paid for and if you bought the dongle and CD, demand it.

Fourstar,

I have the dongle and nothing else. The map is in the dongle. I paid $400.00 for the dongle and it appears that it sells for about $460.

Steep

[PR3VS56]

If it makes you feel better, unless you have a dyno what would you do with the rest of the kit?  The dealer most likely just used the SERT to upload a map.  If you want some value out of this exercise find a highly recommended tuner in your area & give it another go.

Did you pay extra for the dyno time?

[Steep]

Thanks for the additional info, guys. Since I have never seen a Pro catalogue before, the info on the SERT I had looked for was not readily available. This tuner is not listed in the SE section of the P&A catalogue. To answer questions, I paid $400.00 for the dongle and was not charged for the necessary '09 software update, so $400.00 for $490.00 the Pro catalogue shows I need is not bad. I paid $300 for the dyno mapping for a total of $700.00.

My map is in the dongle, so I do have a copy of it. Rode the bike last night and it runs great. The service writer could have given me much better info and I am sure I would have been satisfied when I left the dealership. I did go to the best tuner in the area ( Danny's on Honea-Egypt) prior to my buying slip-ons and changing out the header pipe (contrary to SBB's ASSumptions) and he recommended the SERT as the best way to go based on dependability. I have had a Power Commander fail in the past.

The reason I did not use Danny in the end is that when I told him I was getting rid of the OEM head pipe to get rid of the cat, he laughed and said all I had to do was change out the mufflers and I would be rid of the cat since it was in the front of the muffler................. I told him that was not true, he got horsey and said he had an 09 CVO in the back and knew what he was talking about. Hmmmmm seems even the experts don't know it all..............

Thanks again for your help,

Steep

[skreminegul07]

Thanks for the additional info, guys. Since I have never seen a Pro catalogue before, the info on the SERT I had looked for was not readily available. This tuner is not listed in the SE section of the P&A catalogue. To answer questions, I paid $400.00 for the dongle and was not charged for the necessary '09 software update, so $400.00 for $490.00 the Pro catalogue shows I need is not bad. I paid $300 for the dyno mapping for a total of $700.00.

My map is in the dongle, so I do have a copy of it. Rode the bike last night and it runs great. The service writer could have given me much better info and I am sure I would have been satisfied when I left the dealership. I did go to the best tuner in the area ( Danny's on Honea-Egypt) prior to my buying slip-ons and changing out the header pipe (contrary to SBB's ASSumptions) and he recommended the SERT as the best way to go based on dependability. I have had a Power Commander fail in the past.

The reason I did not use Danny in the end is that when I told him I was getting rid of the OEM head pipe to get rid of the cat, he laughed and said all I had to do was change out the mufflers and I would be rid of the cat since it was in the front of the muffler................. I told him that was not true, he got horsey and said he had an 09 CVO in the back and knew what he was talking about. Hmmmmm seems even the experts don't know it all..............

Thanks again for your help,

Steep

the Map is not in the dongle.  Simply not true.  The Dongle is like a key that allows a laptop with the SERT software the ability to look at and modify the ECM maps, settings, etc.  It is a one time use license key ,married to a single ECM.  In fact if your ECM is replaced, the SERT needs to be replaced as well!.  You need a copy of your map on a thumbdrive, floppy or whatever.  It's like an X Raay, you paid for it , it's yours to walk away with.

The Cables were not part of the original SERT beginnining in 2006 I believe.  One of the cables is a standard serial cable, the other has the unique Deutch connector to serial plug which you could make.

[PR3VS56]

Thanks for the additional info, guys. Since I have never seen a Pro catalogue before, the info on the SERT I had looked for was not readily available. This tuner is not listed in the SE section of the P&A catalogue. To answer questions, I paid $400.00 for the dongle and was not charged for the necessary '09 software update, so $400.00 for $490.00 the Pro catalogue shows I need is not bad. I paid $300 for the dyno mapping for a total of $700.00.

My map is in the dongle, so I do have a copy of it. Rode the bike last night and it runs great. The service writer could have given me much better info and I am sure I would have been satisfied when I left the dealership. I did go to the best tuner in the area ( Danny's on Honea-Egypt) prior to my buying slip-ons and changing out the header pipe (contrary to SBB's ASSumptions) and he recommended the SERT as the best way to go based on dependability. I have had a Power Commander fail in the past.

The reason I did not use Danny in the end is that when I told him I was getting rid of the OEM head pipe to get rid of the cat, he laughed and said all I had to do was change out the mufflers and I would be rid of the cat since it was in the front of the muffler................. I told him that was not true, he got horsey and said he had an 09 CVO in the back and knew what he was talking about. Hmmmmm seems even the experts don't know it all..............

Thanks again for your help,

Steep

Sorry man, but unless your dealer did some serious tuning you got ripped off.  Most likely they just did a before run, uploaded a canned map (takes 2 minutes, included on the CD), then did an after run.  $300 might be par at a dealer, I don't know, but it's still a rip-off.  It's a gouge & they take advantage of the fact that most people don't know a thing about the tuning process. 

Unless there's something new with the Super SERT, the map is not in the dongle.  All the dongle does (at least on the SERT) is give you access to the ECM (serial number matched from that point forward).  The map, to my knowledge, is on the PC.  It's a file, and can be saved to any media (CD, thumb drive, sent in an e-mail, etc).

Danny may not have known where the cat was on a CVO, and thought it was the same as every other 49 state Harley.  Either way he's wrong because it's not in the slip-ons.

The learning curve on the whole tuning thing is expensive.  These forums are great for ascertaining info before purchase.  Glad the bike runs well -- at least you got that much.