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[georgw221]

I was talking to the service tec. today about mild upgrades for a stock 96",, this is what he said,,

1. We are doing the Stage 1 download,,leaving the stock air cleaner on and changing out the pipes.
    With this set up the bike runs a lot better and doesn't run LEAN,,,ALSO A LOT COOLER,,,

2. OR,, Stage 1 , plus SE aircleaner and leaving on the stock pipes,,,
    again the bike runs a lot better and doesn't run,,LEAN,,,ALSO A LOT COOLER,,,

[Keats]

Maybe he is talking about these changes, because he is not planning to tune the bike?

seems like a dyno tune with some more changes would make sense, but that adds another $900.00 plus other costs for changes.

If you do not leave it alone the next thing you know is you have dropped over $2700 for pipes , a/c, SEST, dyno time and cams for another 5 -10 ft lbs of torque.

It is a sickness

[georgw221]

With either one of these will they work,,,and the bike run better and cooler???

[grc]

I was talking to the service tec. today about mild upgrades for a stock 96",, this is what he said,,

1. We are doing the Stage 1 download,,leaving the stock air cleaner on and changing out the pipes.
    With this set up the bike runs a lot better and doesn't run LEAN,,,ALSO A LOT COOLER,,,

2. OR,, Stage 1 , plus SE aircleaner and leaving on the stock pipes,,,
    again the bike runs a lot better and doesn't run,,LEAN,,,ALSO A LOT COOLER,,,

George, I think your "tech" has been smoking something other than the tires on his bike.  He needs to explain how anything he suggested is going to change the AFR in closed loop mode, which accounts for well over 90% of the typical person's riding.  The O² sensors and ECM will still adjust to run that nice lean 14.7:1 AFR.  There is no street legal download from Harley that will change that; even the MoCo can't tamper that obviously with emission rules (they can however sell you a device for $459 to violate the law and get away with that  ).

If you want to "cool" the engine down, and improve throttle response under normal riding conditions, you need to increase fuel in the closed loop mode.  What this guy is selling won't do that, you will need something like the Nightrider IED's or a full tuning device (PC, S/SERT, TTS MasterTune, etc.).

Jerry

[Fullsac Performance]

Here's a before and after dyno on an 09 96 incher after recoring the stock mufflers and adding an SE AC.
These are the final numbers after remapping. Before remapping it was seriously lean at WOT with an AFR of 15.5 and would only make 84 lbs of torque, same as stock. After adding fuel it gained 6 ft lbs. The closed loop area will "catch up" at a steady light cruise and maintain a 14.8-15.0, but as soon as you roll on throttle with any real load its going to run lean, hot and not make any power.
Cooler running with out adding fuel to a now increased lean condidtion? Not a chance. Lol..........

Steve

[georgw221]

OK thanks FULLSAC ,,When you say remaping,,are you talking about Harley's Stage 1 down load?

I have other questions: But first let me give you an idea of what I am trying to do. This is my third Harley,I want it run better and cooler. The main thing to me is to make the upgrades ONE TIME AND BE DONE,,

Question #1. AIR/CLEANER,,DOHERTY or SE at 1/2 the price??
             
             #2. Pipes,,SLIP-ONS or 2 into 1   (kinda like the Supertrapps Fatshots or will there 2 into 1 make a big
                   deference).

             #3. Cams Mild Ones;; Thinking of Andrews 21 or SE 255.

      LOOKING FOR IDEAS  TO MAKE A NICE RUNNING 96,,,     

[Midnight Rider]

Harley does not offer a "Stage 1" download any longer.  That all stopped after the '06 model year when you used to be able to get a download to the ECM for the SE air cleaner and SE pipes, and some other combinations as well.  Beginning in '07, the ONLY way to increase the fuel is with one of the devices mentioned by the other writers, and ideally a good tune by a COMPETENT TUNER.  Jerry (GRC) gave you the best options for tuning devices, IMO.  Steve at Fulsac does good work with the stock exhaust system modifications.  Cam selection is a whole other ball game.

The SE air cleaner "kit" sold by HD has a cheap POS filter included....you will have to replace that with a K&N filter, so figure another 50 bucks or so into that price.  Doherty is a good system.  A 2/1 pipe will generally give you better TQ numbers, if you don't mind losing the pipe on the left side of the bike.

Whatever you do, I'm not sure I'd trust the dealer when they are feeding you a line of BS about the "download".  Also, most HD dealers do not spend the money on training a good tech on how to properly tune a bike...instead, they just dump a "canned" program from the SERT CD into the bike and call it good.  Most wouldn't be able to tune a lawnmower if you had a gun to their head.  Not ALL dealers are that way...it depends on where you live.  Some of the other members here can probably chime in about tuners they know of in your area.

[hdctss]

harley does still offer the download.  in '07 on my friend, a service manager's bike, he did the air cleaner and backing plate, and se pipes and a download.  the thing went from not running well, to really going down the road quickly both accelerating and at a high speed cruise.  I know for a fact they had it in '07, so check your facts before you say they don't have it anymore...or at least get the year correct

[sadunbar]

harley does still offer the download.  in '07 on my friend, a service manager's bike, he did the air cleaner and backing plate, and se pipes and a download.  the thing went from not running well, to really going down the road quickly both accelerating and at a high speed cruise.  I know for a fact they had it in '07, so check your facts before you say they don't have it anymore...or at least get the year correct

Hmmm....  In Terry's (Midnight Rider) 7239 previous posts - I don't recall him getting to many technical points wrong...  Usually his technical points were accompanied by detailed photograghs along with the running commentary of his topic.  Maybe your service manager friend did get a "Stage 1" download of some type - or maybe there is more to the story - but I'll give Terry the benefit of the doubt for now....  

[Twolanerider]

Hmmm....  In Terry's (Midnight Rider) 7239 previous posts - I don't recall him getting to many technical points wrong...  Usually his technical points were accompanied by detailed photograghs along with the running commentary of his topic.  Maybe your service manager friend did get a "Stage 1" download of some type - or maybe there is more to the story - but I'll give Terry the benefit of the doubt for now....  

Odd isn't it Scott?  Me, I could be as full of chit as a pre-BM Christmas goose on most things.  But Terry has always seemed to have a very good handle on those technical issues he chooses to share.  Even were he mistaken though I'm often at a loss why the first and immediate response so often has to jump to bitchy.

The bitch-to-English translation of that remark above might be something like: "Hey pal, a buddy of mine did a download on an 07.  He might have used an 06 load.  But I'm assuming there was something for 07 because he did it."  Instead, nope, straight to bitchy...

[hdctss]

if you are going to give advice to people who are asking legitimate questions, and who do not have the familiarity with the product that you do...it is nice to give the correct information, so therefore if you are going to profess to be an expert with your multi-thousand posts...be correct,  I was not being bitchy...just stating a fact, not an opinion about the download, the only opinion was regarding all of us attempting to give the most correct information to those seeking it

[Sean M Cary]

 .

[hdctss]

I have attached the bulletin with the stage 1 download part number for the 96 inch engine.  Just trying to help.

[Twolanerider]

if you are going to give advice to people who are asking legitimate questions, and who do not have the familiarity with the product that you do...it is nice to give the correct information, so therefore if you are going to profess to be an expert with your multi-thousand posts...be correct,  I was not being bitchy...just stating a fact, not an opinion about the download, the only opinion was regarding all of us attempting to give the most correct information to those seeking it

burp   ('scuse me)

[Twolanerider]

harley does still offer the download.  in '07 on my friend, a service manager's bike, he did the air cleaner and backing plate, and se pipes and a download.  the thing went from not running well, to really going down the road quickly both accelerating and at a high speed cruise.  I know for a fact they had it in '07, so check your facts before you say they don't have it anymore...or at least get the year correct

if you are going to give advice to people who are asking legitimate questions, and who do not have the familiarity with the product that you do...it is nice to give the correct information, so therefore if you are going to profess to be an expert with your multi-thousand posts...be correct,  I was not being bitchy...just stating a fact, not an opinion about the download, the only opinion was regarding all of us attempting to give the most correct information to those seeking it

.

 

burp   ('scuse me)

Ah, what the hell, I'm bored anyway.

Bitchy is in the eye of the beholder.  So to "check your facts before you say they don't have it anymore...or at least get the year correct" I should have said "damn that seems a bitchy to me."  Then instead of being flip and offering the bitchy-to-English translation I should have offered the damn-that-sounded-bitchy-to-me-to-english translation.  My apologies.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming:


Fred Sanford:  It's gonna be a big one!

Fred Sanford: Ooops, no, not this time, just a little gas.