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[GOMO]

So with the Dealers Meeting about a month away has anybody heard any new rumors. So far there have been thoughts on a new CVO Street Glide, Road Glides being retagged as TourGlides with Ultra versions and the (can't see it happening yet)  Water Cooled H-D's. Plus this info has been floating around the web:

2010 Harley-Davidson Model Year info from HDnet
Run it, it's true, damn true. Anyone with HDnet access can confirm the
below....

COLOR OFFERINGS – 2010 HARLEY-DAVIDSON MODEL YEAR

DISCONTINUED COLORS :
Black Pearl
Pewter Pearl
Dark Blue Pearl
Pewter Denim
Red Hot Denim
Dark Blue Denim
Crimson Red Sunglo

CARRYOVER COLORS :
SOLIDS/PEARLS
Vivid Black
Flame Blue Pearl
Brilliant Silver Pearl
Black Denim
Red Hot Sunglo
Mirage Orange Pearl
Brilliant Silver Denim

TWO-TONES
Brilliant Silver Denim/Black Denim
Vivid Black/Mirage Orange Pearl Race Stripe

PLANNED NEW COLORS:
Model usage will be viewable on the Phase I order
detail within VOM.

SOLIDS/PEARLS
Scarlet Red
Black Ice Denim
Black Ice Pearl
TWO-TONES
Black Denim/Brilliant Silver Denim Race Stripe
Vivid Black/Brilliant Silver Pearl Race Stripe
Scarlet Red/Vivid Black
Flame Blue Pearl/Brilliant Silver Pearl
Vivid Black/Brilliant Silver Pearl
Vivid Black/Black Ice Pearl
Flame Blue Pearl/Vivid Black
White Ice Pearl/Black Ice Pearl

CUSTOM COLORS:
There are 2 Custom Colors in the 2010MY, offered on select
models.
Merlot Sunglo/Cherry Red Sunglo: Available October-March
White Ice Pearl/Black Ice Pearl: Available January-May

MODELS DISCONTINUED IN 2010MY
FLHT, FLTR, FXSTB, FXCW, FXDL, XL883C

[GOMO]

Here's one I haven't heard yet that was just passed on to me - I have no back up for it just a passing of one of those "I heard from a source that said.............."
Anyway, the bike that was mentioned was dark version of a tourer : Darkglide, supposively a RG done up black

I guess we'll see

[Gone Fishin']

That could be the Muscle done up as a full dresser with fairing, saddlebags and tour pak.

Ride safely,
Louis

[cola]

As long as we are posting rumors. I copied from another board I belong to. Thats all I know.



CVO no longer to be seperate operation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello, I just wanted to pass some useful info to all CVO owners out there. Since the founding of CVO many years ago the Touring and Softail models have been built in a separate building in York,PA. I am one of the lucky few who build them. Today they announced that they were no longer going to be built by a few (12 on Softail, 28 on Touring) caring and diligent workers. They are going to be intergrated onto the main assembly lines where 75 people at the least put parts on these bikes. We in CVO work in teams of 2 on Softail and 4 on Touring. These 2-4 people built the whole bike not just put a few parts on. We take pride in what we do and try to build the best bike possible and have always beleived that CVO owners really appreciated the idea that the are built this way. When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on. If you think the same please let your voice be heard. Send letters, email the company, Tell your local dealer to pass your dismay along. Mail letters to Harley Davidson, 1425 Eden Rd, York PA 17403 or Harley Davidson Motor Co,3800 W. Juneau Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53203. If you could please pass this along to any and all CVO owners and Owners Groups it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Twolanerider]

When we questioned them on this they stated "The people who buy CVO don't care if they are built indivdually or on the main lines" I have a hard time beleiving this. I would rather have a bike built by 2 people rather than 75 who don't care if the person before them put the right parts on.

No matter the ox being gored or who it belonged to with just a moment's time to think I'd imagine most anyone would realize they just don't give a rat's ass.  Or at least not a big one. 

We buy the bike from the company.  Not a specific plant or assembly line.  And we've sure as hell seen assembly errors from the "hand built" methodology that we'd likely not see on a fully computerized line.  The main line has also already been doing low quantity production bikes (Shriner, Fire Fighter, Police, etc) as part of its regular production.  So suggesting the main line would do a lesser job seems a bit specious.

Done on the main line with it's greater automation and faster materials handling the price per unit of a CVO bike will cost the MoCo less.  If this is true that's the driving force.  CVO is (or at least used to be) part of P&A rather than new bike sales.  So there may be some political wrangling between the divisions.  But out here on the street I only care that they got the damn bike out the door in good shape and properly done.  Could care less how it got there or off which (domestic) line.

[Gone Fishin']

No matter the ox being gored or who it belonged to with just a moment's time to think I'd imagine most anyone would realize they just don't give a rat's ass.  Or at least not a big one. 

We buy the bike from the company.  Not a specific plant or assembly line.  And we've sure as hell seen assembly errors from the "hand built" methodology that we'd likely not see on a fully computerized line.  The main line has also already been doing low quantity production bikes (Shriner, Fire Fighter, Police, etc) as part of its regular production.  So suggesting the main line would do a lesser job seems a bit specious.

Done on the main line with it's greater automation and faster materials handling the price per unit of a CVO bike will cost the MoCo less.  If this is true that's the driving force.  CVO is (or at least used to be) part of P&A rather than new bike sales.  So there may be some political wrangling between the divisions.  But out here on the street I only care that they got the damn bike out the door in good shape and properly done.  Could care less how it got there or off which (domestic) line.

I beg to differ, albeit in a very minor point: I was always intrigued by the fact that CVO's are built by the same workers from "scratch". I think that is really special. However, do I believe the bikes would be not as good, if they came from the general assembly line? No, certainly not. It speaks for the Moco if they have advanced their production capabilities towards running a multitude of different models through the same assembly line, a practice used by car manufacturers (even the more exclusive, smaller ones) for decades. As a result we may see more different model options and more factory installed options in the future as well as a generally more flexible model policy (instead of once per year releasing new stuff).

Ride safely,
Louis

[Gecko]

Doesn't really matter who bolts on sub-standard parts.  Bad parts is bad parts.

[grc]

Unfortunately, I think a large number of us know first hand the truth concerning the "hand built by a small team" quality versus the regular assembly line.  As in all the loose parts and all the maladjusted parts that come with a CVO.  I personally spent an entire weekend checking and tightening fasteners on my bike shortly after purchase, after I accidentally found a couple loose fasteners, and what I found didn't make me happy.

In my opinion, stated previously on this site, the so-called CVO's should become another model in the Harley lineup and should be built entirely within the normal system.  That includes the paint, which the outside vendors can't seem to consistently handle without major screwups.  By doing this, the rapid price escalation in the CVO's could be contained (assuming H-D really wanted to control the price, which won't be true until they find they can't sell what they currently build due to pricing).  You would also get more consistent build quality from the regular assembly line; that's an absolute fact that can't be argued against by anyone with experience in special "off line" assembly operations.  I've been there and done that in the auto business, and the reality isn't what the advertising folks would like you to believe.

BTW, Gecko is absolutely correct.  Calling it a "custom" vehicle, or "hand built", and charging premium prices, does not automatically make for a quality vehicle.  Junk parts, whether assembled by robots, conscientious humans, or hung-over druggies on a Monday morning, result in a bad vehicle.  Bad parts is bad parts, and piss poor engineering is piss poor engineering.  Hanging a fancy name and some extra chrome on bad parts just makes it a more expensive collection of bad parts.

Jerry

[J-Carr]

Well, one thing we do know.  Harley reads the CVO forums.  And if this was a rumor, after reading the CVO owners' opinion my guess is next year it will be done, even if it's not being done now. 

Truth is, Harley can't afford to run the seperate "hand built" lines when the main production lines are running well below capacity.  Those extra 6000 bikes coming thru the main line are gravy as far as paying the workers.  They can squeeze those bike in without adding any over time or increased cost.  Plus they can close the separate CVO building and save heat, cooling, etc.  It's a no brainer for the MoCo as long as the CVO people continue to buy.  And we've just provided some very good (AND FREE) market research for them that sales will not be effected.

But I'll give real long odds that none of that savings gets passed down to the MSRP.  Any takers?

Ride Safe,
J-Carr

[naitram]

i dont see a huge cost savings here, yes they can merge production into the main lines. but it will add to the procurement/logistics making sure the proper restricted parts are in the right bins at the right times.

if CVO goes mainline i would expect less restricted parts put on, and forget about painted frames.

i would think the QC overhead would eat up the assembly savings. 

[skreminegul07]

i dont see a huge cost savings here, yes they can merge production into the main lines. but it will add to the procurement/logistics making sure the proper restricted parts are in the right bins at the right times.

if CVO goes mainline i would expect less restricted parts put on, and forget about painted frames.

i would think the QC overhead would eat up the assembly savings. 

 

[grc]

..................................
i would think the QC overhead would eat up the assembly savings. 

Hmmmm.  What are you trying to say Phil?  Oh, I get it.  You have to have some actual QC in order to have QC overhead.  So H-D is safe in that regard.

Jerry

[J-Carr]

i dont see a huge cost savings here, yes they can merge production into the main lines. but it will add to the procurement/logistics making sure the proper restricted parts are in the right bins at the right times.

if CVO goes mainline i would expect less restricted parts put on, and forget about painted frames.

i would think the QC overhead would eat up the assembly savings. 

You may be right.  But I noticed when we did the CVO tour in April that they basically line up bins of parts (IE a whole trolly of CVO springer forks) at the CVO builders station.  This is how they do the regular parts at the standard assembly stations.  You'll see a trolly of the various componants that could possibly be used on a standard bike.  There were Road Glide and Batwing fairing carts parked at the touring line. 

Will it take any more to roll that cart of CVO parts to the standard line instead of across the lot to the CVO building?  It may be a logistical problem as you point out.  But I'm thinking it's for the most part, just a different destination to drop the parts carts off at.

I seem to be in the minority in that there was only one QC flaw on my bike.  Some dirt or leftover plastic in my throttle.  Most of the people I know who got standard '08s had many more issues then that.  So it seems that the current QC problems are on both sides of the house.

Ride Safe,
J-Carr

[skreminegul07]

Hmmmm.  What are you trying to say Phil?  Oh, I get it.  You have to have some actual QC in order to have QC overhead.  So H-D is safe in that regard.

Jerry

Been there, done that, bought a few shirts.  Last week at Laconia, at the Harley demo area, one of the employees came up to me and introduced himself as one of the people building CVOs in York.  My buddies smiled and walked away as I asked, "you got a minute?"
He was stunned.
 

[casper]

Well so far 8,000 miles on my 08 SEUC, had 2 bikes last season, I have no complaints yet on anything except the valve noise on the 110  have not done the recall work yet thats this winter and 113" might get done. I only have 1 spot on the chrome  around saddle bag guard, Havent had them change that yet cause it aint a big deal, My mechanics check every connector bolt nut at the service intervals. That what you pay for.