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[Harley Dog]

Looking for some expert advice. Will try to summarize my dilemma.

My bike is a 2006 Ultra with a stage 1 SE103 kit, SERT performed by American Eagle HD prior to my purchase. Bike also has a D&D FatCat exhaust(never been happy with the dyno-tune since I have owned!). Included with my purchase was a two year extended warranty(thankfully) which expires in Jan,2010. The bike currently has 12K miles at the time of failure.

Within the last year or so, the motor began to exhibit unusual/abnormal clicking/clacking noises sync'd to RPM speed. Mostly audible to my ears at idle speeds. Pitch of the noise would change or even disappear depending on the angle of the bike(lean to left or right of center). Had Knoxville HD have a look during normal maintenance. They observed symptoms but could not determine cause and did not see reason for alarm at that point. I thought it may be noisy injectors or something but it was very much a concern that the dealer didn't offer a more concrete solution or response.

In the last month, the suspicious noise had not changed. My plan was to have the bike looked at again as soon as I could schedule. Especially since my warranty would be running out soon.

Preparing for a short ride one day, the bike would not start - cranked but no fire or spark. Towed to Smoky Mountain HD where they quickly determined the crank sensor was broken in half. They ultimately found that one of the inner cam bearings disintegrated and pretty much destroyed the motor. A warranty inspector has authorized a complete repair.

I am working directly through the Service Manager and he has offered some options, recommendations and flexibility through the repair process.

Recommendations:
1) Replace inner cam bearings with Torrington/TIMKIN. (I agreed)
2) Upgrade CAM plate, hydraulic tensioners, oil pump to '07 design "kit". ( I believe this to be a good choice>?)
3) CAM Replacement - Zipper 575 drop in. (I am looking for more low end TQ over the 253 CAM).

The original plan was to order the complete SE103 kit along with the standard bottom end parts. However, the Manager believes that I can save money and put towards other items(i.e. 1, 2, & 3 above). He indicates that I will not need to replace the heads or related components to this failure. Pretty much the entire lower end and cylinders, cases, etc. are to be replaced.

Questions:
1) Should I be concerned about the heads requiring replacement since most other motor components appear to be affected>?
2) It is worth spending extra money now on any head work? What are the real benefits?
3) I assume upgrading my CAM plate and tensioners to the '07 design is a good idea for improved reliability?
4) If I change CAM's to the Zipper 575, what about going to gear driven? Other concerns?
5) What other issues or items should I be looking at while I am at this point in a rebuild?
6) Considering going to Rinehart TD's. Like the sound better and tired of burning my right leg from the heat on my Fatcat's. How much is performance really affected as compared to the 2 in 1?

In the end, I want my bike to have improved reliability while providing better lower end torque. I have not been happy at all with the 253 CAM. I am not about the dyno numbers here. I simply want the bike to be more fun and easier to ride without worrying about breaking down again. The warranty will expire in 6 months, so I need this rebuild to be reliable as possible. I am certainly thankful the bike failed when it did instead of waiting until my warranty expired.

I apologize for the lengthy post. I have some very real concerns and not enough experience to sort them out. I appreciate any comments and advice that will assist me with these choices.

Thanks for listening! -HD-

[Rooster]

Welcome to the site Harleydog, sounds like you got lucky just before warranty ran out. I'm no expert but from all that I have read many people seem happy with the 575 cams for the 103. Might be a good time to have Darkhorse or someone else to weld and balance your since while your rebuilding. Your other ideas are good also, the new tensioners and chains seem to be holding up well so far so definetly an improvement over the old style. Hope you can get it the way that makes you happy. 

[Unbalanced]

Service manager is giving you some fair advice.

1.  12k miles on the motor with that in mind since you have to do a complete tear down and have the heads off have someone do a complete job on the heads, new springs, valves, seals. and port / polish job and flow.
2.  Have timken put in but i would go with the 07 style cam plate and not go gear drive
3.  Use cam of choice of the head guy.  You can increase the compression some, but should stay at 10 to 1 compression or under and get good results without giving up reliablity.  John Sachs just did 2 of these that I am familiar with.  He is a member on the site here and can comment on the heads or send him a PM.
4.  Have the crank balanced etc by Hoban Brothers aka dark horse
5.  Would consider the Kuryakins Wild Things over the Rineharts  talk to WVultra about sound choices
6.  I would use Harley Stock Lifters and not SE Lifters and I would not go with roller rockers unless you choose a cam over .600 lift.
7.  Have the porter open your throttlebody up a little to say 48 / 49 mm and continue to use the 4.35 injectors.

Typically these heads in stock form with 253 cams produce 98tq / 94 hp give or take depending on dyno, pipes, tuner   with headwork a little compression you can easily produce 115/110 and have a reliable motor.

You will give up some down low power when you go to true duals over a 2 into 1.   Just depends on you.

Sorry to hear about your motor but better with warranty than not

  

[TallyClassic]

Doesn't D&D have a new bend for their headers?  Seems I saw a set of FatCats with a much improved rear cylinder bend that got the pipe away from your leg.  Might be cheaper than buying a whole new set of pipes.

[Harley Dog]

Thanks for all the comments.  Any others?

Will be following through with the Zippers 575 CAM (chain drive)and new CAM plate/tensioners/oil pump design.  Still trying to understand the issues with the flywheel assy.
Will likely change exhaust to V&H ProPipe and sell the FC.

Still lots to think about as they rebuild this thing.  I will have time since I won't see my bike for a month or so. 

-HD-

[HD Street Performance]

If a SE cam plate is in the plan may want to wait there are rumors of issues with them.

[spydglide]

If a SE cam plate is in the plan may want to wait there are rumors of issues with them.

Haven't heard of any.  I and a few friends are not experiencing any issues.  What specifics have you heard?  spyder

[hogasm]

If a SE cam plate is in the plan may want to wait there are rumors of issues with them.

Haven't heard of any.  I and a few friends are not experiencing any issues.  What specifics have you heard?  spyder

The check valve has attendancy to stick causing a loss of oil pressure......first hand knowledge

[BillH]

The check valve has attendancy to stick causing a loss of oil pressure......first hand knowledge

Are you referring to the SE plate for the '07-'09 motors?  I have one I am getting ready to install with new cams.  Anything I can check or modify before installation?

Thanks

Bill

[HD Street Performance]

Yep
Check it on a ground plate or granite for flatness, pull the relief valve and inspect the bore and be sure the poppet valve slides smoothly. If those things are fine go ahead and run it. Some report a very fast wear rate between the pump and plate surface, nothing to check there
Why not just run stock?
I see no advantage to using this plate.

[BillH]

Thanks for the info.

I had hoped that the bronze bushings would provide a better bearing surface than the "parent material" in the stock plate, and hold tolerance better.  That sounded like a valid argument when I ordered the plate.  I got it from Chicago HD when they offered an additional 10% discount to their standard 20% a while back.

Checking the bore and flatness sounds reasonable..Could the accelerated wear rate be the result of a crank that was running at the MoCo's new "tolerance", and wobbling like a 2-bit top?

Many thanks for your sharing of knowledge.

Bill

[HD Street Performance]

Could the accelerated wear rate be the result of a crank that was running at the MoCo's new "tolerance", and wobbling like a 2-bit top

Understood
And you bet the crank runout is a factor. Bad enough (the top of their limit) will take out any pump or plate.

[BillH]

I'll just have to wait until I get the cam cover off to see which end of the MOCO "crank run-out scale" I'm at.

Bill

[Harley Dog]

I just wanted to post an update on the situation with my 103 cratering experience.

First, I wish to thank all those that responded with their suggestions and recommendations. The experience on these forums is tremendous and the support offered is certainly very helpful.

The dealer was very flexible and offered me some good choices during the rebuild. There were so many things I would have perhaps liked to have done, but the money was just not there to support it at this time. As it turns out, the crank was scissored for certain. This was the major cause of the engine failure along with perhaps the CAM bearing but, that was likely as a result of what happened to the crank.

I have chosen to keep the SE103 build as standard with the exception of the Zippers 575 CAMs with Torrington inner bearings and the SE CAM plate/tensioners. I feel that these changes will improve the longevity and ridability of the motor. The V&H ProPipe will be a welcome addition as well. Although my Fat Cat was not bad, I just like the sound of the Pro Pipe a bit better. (Fat Cat for sale!)

There are those that have told me I will likely have further opportunities(yet another cratered motor) down the road considering the crank/flywheel assys. Harley is supplying. Who knows if this is true or not, but I will address that circumstance at that time if it happens. It will be on my dime at that time. (I will start saving for my dream motor now).   

I should have my bike back in the coming week or so. Harley took quite awhile to deliver new numbered cases and delayed getting the motor rebuilt. I am very excited to see how the bike performs.


     


Thanks again!

Cheers!     

-HD

[Unbalanced]

Well sounds like you are well on your way to being back on the road, but I would have sent the crank out for work and belayed the pipe change since it would be about the same cost to you give or take just a bit.   Then you would have a bit more piece of mind that the bottom end wasn't coming apart.

Sorry been traveling or I would have thrown this out there earlier.   Wish you all the luck with the rebuild, you should be very happy with the 575's they run GREAT!